Joys of night-flights....

Good for you Nfk! We have a friend who has had weight problems for years. Ended up with terrible lymphodaema. Went to clinic, they told him unless you lose weight we will no longer treat you. The next time he went, no change in weight, they asked if he thought they were joking. . . . That was the wake up call for him. He joined a slimming club and has lost 9 1/2 stone! He's like a new man! His wife says it's like getting her husband back. If he can do it anyone can. Sadly, of course, it's all on the mind.

Dear Magicwriter, I'm sorry you are so angry about people not being respectful of you. I would hope that I would respect you as a person. But are you respectful of me and my feelings when you or other large people make my journey uncomfortable and press against my body. Surely you should respect my not wanting to make intimate body contact with you.
You seem to be demanding respect without being willing to give it.

Surely people are able to rub along (pardon the pun!) without thinking that everything is all about them?
Until anyone can afford a private jet then we're all exposed to other people, and their assorted shapes, sizes, smells and whatever else.

Eglatine don't for one second think plus size people are not fully aware of the issues . I have travelled extensively for business and pleasure and now generally upgrade to avoid inconveniencing anyone with my large bottom or my limited mobility .

But really , the whole issue is not in the hands of the people, it's in the increasingly greedy hands of airlines who are making both their seat pitch and width smaller and smaller. All in an effort to fit more folks in.

They make money from people such as yourself you might pre book seats to avoid over size seat mates. They make money from tall people who want extra leg room. From families who wish to sit together - the list is endless .

And we the consumer do not vote with our feet , we let them. The average U.K. Woman is a size 16 , yet a size 16 ( not a plus size by anyone's measure surely) already encroaches on the next persons seat. So it's almost impossible to not sit in close physical proximity to your seat mate.

With the next seat size reduction, a size 14 will be squished.... what's the answer?

I agree the fault is with airlines making seat room too small in order to cram as many people in as possible to make more money.
Eglantine that comment was a bit harsh. Do you expect overweight people never to travel? Surely you xanout up with a bit of discomfort for a short time. As orgers have sad ther are lots of ways people can annoy otger passenges- with crying babies, children kicking the back of the seat, talking loudly all night, drinking too much, coughing and sneezing etc etc. We just have to put up with it and be tolerant if we want cheap flights.
And to the person who said all hell breaks loose when you say fatty please be aware that it is a very offensive term rather like some racist words or some words for people with disabilities which I wont mention here. Better to say large or overweight or well built.

Nana and Grampy, I do get that bigger people feel bad sometimes. My issue was that Magicwriter was complaining that people do not respect her but should she expect respect if she won't give it?
I suppose my experience is that larger people don't even try to stay in their space. If someone has to be uncomfortable because there is not enough room then surely it should be them and not me? Should my legs be squashed up against the side of the plane because their legs are wide apart or should they squash their legs together? Should I have to squash my shoulders inwards and have my elbows pressed into my sides because they take all the armrest and more or should they be prepared to to sit like that to take up less room?
The more people on a plane the cheaper the fare and everyone wants cheap fares. It doesn't seem unreasonable that people who take up more room should have to pay more.

I didn't mean my comment to be harsh Polly, just asking for equal respect for my feelings. A short time might be bearable. A twelve hour flight with only half a seat isn't.

I swear that every time I fly they have made the seat space smaller. BTW I'm 5ft 3 and 7. 5 stone and frequently have to endure people telling me how skinny I am, which is rude.I don't condone fat shaming but bet no-one says to a larger person's face that they are so fat.My size is due to health problems.

@pollyperkins I did not use the word fatty which is rude but the word fat which is factual. Some people are tall, some are fat. Neither word is perjorative. Why should anyone have to find synonyms acceptable to you to describe the growing problem of people being too fat to fit into an airline seat thereby making the journey a nightmare for their neighbours when they have the option of paying for a second seat or a larger seat so that they don't impinge on their neighbour's space. People with long legs frequently pay for extra legroom. Nobody suggests that all airline seats should have excessive legroom so why blame the airline when they already offer larger seats in other parts of the plane? P.S. Sorry OP, this thread had gone off at a tangent.

The only thing I can comment on , from your last post Esspee is that yes there are larger seats in other parts of the plane, last time I flew long haul business class I paid just over £3000 for the privilege of a larger seat and not offending anyone. As opposed to about £800 in economy.

All I'm saying is if a size 16 is already too large for the average seat how long before that becomes a size 14? or a size 12?

Where does it stop? All to make more profit ! I'm all for companies making a fair profit for the service but this is a thin end of the wedge.

If we're making larger people pay extra then what next - people with children ( because they can be a nightmare too on planes), those people with huge cabin luggage, I'm sure we have all seen them? Drunk people definitely need to pay a surcharge...oh and how about disabled people who slow up boarding ( like me) ?

Once upon a time you could reserve your seat free of charge but airlines discovered that they could make money from that.

Here we are complaining bitterly about larger people encroaching on seat space but the real culprits are the airlines. Maybe we should be telling them how we feel?

But bigger seats would be more expensive fares for everyone. Are we all happy to pay for everyone's extra need?
Would you pay extra for your seat so that my friend with long legs can have the room he needs?
No I still can't see why I should have to share my seat space with anyone whatever their size or shape or need to flop all over me ?

I cannot agree that it is the airline's fault. Yes some of them are greedy and try to squeeze in more passengers but we can refuse to travel with them. As I have said on this thread before I am a 16 and at 5'5 weighing 80kilos that works out as obese. I have never been too big for my seat, even on a 6seater plane.

Eglantine, I did not say I expected folk to respect me, but that I would not respect them. If you read my post again you will see that I said we should ALL respect each other instead of insulting each other. I always try and lean away from the person sitting next to me, as I value their space as much as I value my own space. I am not that big that I 'overflow' all over my companions seat, but I do find it increasingly painful to squeeze my butt into an ever decreasing seat! I don't know what size you are, but will you feel the same when the seats have shrunk that much that you will be squashed into them? I do find your comments quite selfish, it's all me, me, me! As others have said, it's not just 'fatties' that annoy other folk, are you going to suggest charging folk with children more as they can make a journey very uncomfortable if they are screaming and crying, what about the person who coughs and splutters all over everyone, should they be charged more for passing their germs on? Yes, it sounds utterly ridiculous, the same as saying 'fat' people should upgrade to bigger seats. I would love to be able to afford to do that, but sadly, my finances do not let me. Let's hope we never have to share the same plane or heaven forbid, be seated next to one another. But if we do, you are more than welcome to have the armrest if it will make you happy .

Dear GN's......What a storm of unpleasantness this thread has released.
My original post was a waxing lyrical type of musing about the unattainable luxury of business or first class travel.
I only travel economy short haul, as that fits my budget.
To all those generous sized ladies who have been hurt by comments from posters, I am truly sorry.
Lets close this thread for once and for all !

No I'm sorry grannysue, I can't leave it. It's so illogical. Somebody explain to me why another person is entitled to some of the seat I've paid for.
Other than that I should be nice and unselfish and not care about me. Why are they more important than me?

And thinking about it some more. If I want luggage over and above my allowance I pay for it. I don't expect anyone to take clothes out of their suitcase to give me extra room. Or if I want a cup of coffee on a non-inclusive flight I buy it, not take half the cup of the person next to me. I accept the conditions of the flight I've booked. The size of the seat is clearly shown. It's just as much a part of the conditions of the flight.
But I don't expect that those people who want their seat plus someone else's will accept that as reasonable any more than I accept that what they want is reasonable. Like Magicwriter says, hope we don't get to sit next to each other!

willsmadnan, as you obviously have the internet, you will find many medical papers discussing genetic and heritable influences on obesity. Also, people who have bypass operations often find that their taste changes back to what it would have been before they were fat and the body resets itself so when you get to the weight you were heading for when you were first born you stop losing weight. The topic of obesity, its causes and treatment is of great interest to me and I accept that some people are just gluttonous but not all overweight people should be tarred with the same brush.
As a Type 2 diabetic it is assumed that it must be because I am fat that I got diabetes (I wear size 10 trousers and a 14-16 tops because of my bust size) and I admit that my stomach area is the fattest bit of me. Now the medical world is researching beyond whether "fat" causes diabetes or whether insulin resistance causes the fat to build up. Also, my mother, my aunt, my great uncles and a huge number of our family all have type 2 Diabetes. At least half of them were like matchsticks with the wood scraped off so yet again it belies the myth that it is a "Fat" issue.

You could take your argument further Eglantine and apply it to the NHS. Why should fit people pay taxes to supplement ill people which may be due to them failing to look after their health? Life is not fair. We are born into different circumstances. But to be 'community'we must learn to love and support each other and accept each others weaknesses and foibles. Next time you sit next to an overweight person just think how fortunate you are that you don't gave a weight problem.

Being fat is, in the huge majority of cases, totally avoidable.
If you eat 100 calories a day over and above your needs you will put on about 10lbs a year.
It is also extremely unhealthy, the medical profession has backtracked on its pronouncement that you can be fit and fat(their words not mine)
Just think of the money that can be saved by cutting out all those treats. Enough to pay for at least a premium economy seat. Not that one would be needed?
Why can't you OW folk understand that you have made the choice ( barring a small minority) to be the size you are but we haven't. I don't care how big you are if you aren't squashing me.

Oh well mumofmadboys, my foible is to want to sit comfortably in the seat I've paid for. It's not a fat issue per se. The man I talked about right at the beginning wasn't fat. He just wanted to put his arms on the arm rest and his elbows into me so he could play his game. When he settled down to nap he wanted to lay diagonally with his head on my head rest.
On another journey a man with long legs wanted to put his bag in the front of my seat because his legs would have been squashed if he had put it in front of his. Apparently my legs didn't matter!
And if an overweight person squashes me and makes me a hey and uncomfortable are they being kind and caring towards me? Or does it just work one way?

achey not hey

I'm sure an overweight person didn't get that way just so they could annoy passengers on airplanes! The assumption seems to be that an overweight person deliberately lets bits overhang for just that reason
Strange to think everything is about oneself.

I just want my seat. Why is that so unreasonable? Someone give me a logical answer.

Don't know about a logical answer. Certainly an interesting philosophical debate though isn't it. Do people have a "right" to board an aeroplane? Do they have a "right" to the space they have paid for? If two people have conflicting rights, and not possible for both to exercise them simultaneously, which should prevail.
I might think I have the right to have a lively party, going on into the small hours (totally hypothetical, alas) - and my neighbour might think she has a right to peace and quiet so she can sleep... And then there is gun law in the states...

I suppose people who want their space so very much could always upgrade
The rest of us can put up with each others' space invading, and other issues.