Gender critical trans woman

I'm sorry, but I would feel uncomfortable stripping off in a female changing room with intact males there. And I'm definitely pro LGBTC

I would feel really uncomfortable in the those circumstances. And I don't think we should be expected to put up with that. What's more I really hate open changing rooms for women.

What is wrong with wanting and asking for a bit of privacy? People always insisting on their "rights" in such circumstances and not considering the feelings of other people show a very aggressive approach. We do need to consider other peoples feelings.

TBH I would not trust some men to deliberately want to expose themselves in such circumstances. What an oppotunity to flash and it is mainly men who do this .

I'm not even very comfortable stripping off when I'm on my own. No way in this lifetime would I ever use a communal changing room with either gender in.

Fortunately the two shops I use (plus size) have cubicles, or I'd be doing all my clothes shopping on line.
I don't expose my wobbly flesh to any human

Did anyone see the documentary last night on BBC2? It showed just what trans people have to go through to make brain fit with body.

I agree with all of that - but does anyone have the faintest clue what a Gender critical trans woman is!?

From what I can work out from Google, it seems to be somebody who 'wants to be known' as a specific gender.

Oh, but I don't think that included the 'trans' part. I suppose that means something else.

Women have always been called names for saying no. Frigid, bitch, prude. These words are meant to shame us into saying yes.
Women are supposed to be available, welcoming, obedient, and it has been the aim of the women’s movement since its inception to challenge these preconceptions, to say no to men’s definition of us.
It is thanks to feminism that since 1991 wives can say no to their husbands and have that ‘no’ backed up by law. It is thanks to feminism that women no longer have to accept dismissal if they marry or become pregnant. It is thanks to feminism that women in the West are beginning to feel confident in saying no to men in myriad different situations.
Prude, bitch, frigid don’t sting like they used to. Misogynists in the west are losing society’s assumption that women should say yes. Increasingly, it is they who are shamed for insisting. As feminists we applaud this,but I can't help feeling that men have finally found a way to get at us without being nasty.

All good stuff - but what is a Gender critical trans woman?

What an interesting post and link, well beyond the everyday world of thought most of us inhabit!

Gender Critical is a radical feminist subreddit which discusses gender from a critical perspective. i.e. takes gender not as a given but as something ascribed at birth.

A subreddit is a forum on the site Reddit, the latter is a website with forums dedicated to links on a specific subject www.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/

The description of the Gender Critical subreddit on the site (sit up straight now!) is:

^Gender Critical is a radical feminist subreddit to discuss gender from a critical perspective. We are a woman-centered community. We do not believe 'woman' is a feeling. We do not condone the erasure of females and female-only spaces, the silencing of critical thinking, the denial of biological reality and of sex-based oppression. We oppose the 'cotton ceiling' and the pressure on lesbians to have sex with men.
"Women do not decide at some point in adulthood that they would like other people to understand them to be women, because being a woman is not an ‘identity.’ Women’s experience does not resemble that of men who adopt the ‘gender identity’ of being female or being women in any respect. The idea of ‘gender identity’ disappears biology and all the experiences that those with female biology have of being reared in a caste system based on sex." - Sheila Jeffreys, Gender Hurts^

This all makes me want to run to the hills, but after I went and looked on Mumsnet and looked at this thread and the first few posts:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2873456-Until-we-organise-as-well-as-the-transactivists-were-not-going-to-stem-the-problem?pg=1

....and discovered that there is a well funded trans lobby and that CPS packs are being distributed in schools which must be these: www.cps.gov.uk/northwest/working_with_you/hate_crime_schools_project/schools_project___lgbt_hate_crime/

and that the government debated early in the year over a Gender Recognition Act update (really?) and good practice includes A trans person should be free to select the facilities (such as toilets or changing rooms) appropriate to the gender in which they present.”

then I find myself thinking that if I don't pay attention and try to find out what is happening out there, it will all happen anyway and I won't like the end result. Help.

p.s. a transgender woman is a man who has identified as a woman and is therefore claiming to be entitled to enter previously women-only areas thus potentially threatening women who see transgender women as actually men (and there have been cases of men using transgender identity to prey upon women). So I suppose a gender critical transwoman is a man who identifies as a woman under the banner of gender critical, i.e. gender as not fixed. Phew, going to have a cup of tea now.

Oh and if you want to go further these people are opposing this trend and the discussion on their website gives an interesting perspective on what's going on:

www.transgendertrend.com

Codswallop.

Thanks Azie09 for your post - I've learnt a lot!

I personally know two young people transitioning from female to male ,they are NO threat to anyone and it has taken a great deal of courage for them to embark on this journey they are on.How sad that so many think its only perverts who want into womens changing rooms who are /claim to be transgender .The young people I know are lucky that they have amazing support from their peers,from school staff and from the community ...its only their OLDER (wiser ?) relatives who dismiss it as a "phase".Says it all really ,some just cant see any change as anything but bad

paddyann that's quite a heated response to what is obviously an amazingly complicated situation. Great that your anecdotal stories are positive and that you actually know some young people who are transitioning and are no threat to anyone but the wider situation may not be the same. I don't think anyone has dismissed this as a 'phase' but maybe many of us were "tomboys" in childhood and later are happily female. At what age do we start getting serious about encouraging children to think they might want to change gender. It's a big process involving medical intervention, that's a pretty big step.

Many women suffer from abuse by men from staring and cat calling in the street to sexual attacks and domestic violence within relationships. What about the rights of those women when forced to share formerly private space with men who were formerly women. Whose rights should prevail is hardly a throwaway matter.

I thought reddit was what a frog says!

I confess to being utterly confused - and to being older.

But......I do not see all change as bad. I am just older and wise enough to have seen it all before - the way those who feel oppressed shout loudly and reforms occur which swing too far in one direction; and that it takes decades for this aberrant swing to drift back to somewhere that makes more sense. It is just the way of things - when blacks were oppressed, people fought for their rights, and we finished up in the mad situation where, as a young social worker, I was not allowed to use the words blackboard or black coffee - things are more sensible/balanced now, and quite rightly.

One of my DDs was to all intents and purposes a boy - she dressed like a boy, played with the boys, had no interest whatsoever in "girly" things (whatever they might be). She is now a happily married heterosexual with two children. My fear is that today a child like her will be filled with the current ideas that are being peddled, the teaching packs for primary pupils etc etc and will ask herself questions that do not need asking and go down routes that will ultimately damage her.

Azie09 - pour a cup for me!

Luckygirl I agree with you. I am now feeling a bit disturbed by what I have come across in trying to answer your post.
This organisation genderedintelligence.co.uk/about-us/our-aims has been involved in advising the government about gender matters. I am really struggling with their philosophy, as described on this page, and with the content of the video Tedtalk on the page.
It's as though there is a movement to make rigid something that is already fluid. I was always in jeans as a child, climbed trees, explored, rode my bike, fought physically with my brother, liked cars and football and as an adult I can use carpentry tools and like doing so, like sport and still wear jeans a lot but I am also a mother and woman who enjoys aspects of the traditionally female world too. I don't see the problem. Are there so very many inhibited and confused adults out there?
This does feel like there is an agenda being pushed by some. How hard the world is now for our children and grandchildren.

I think all the going over and over it adding additional titles trying to make sure everyone's in a box then making sure everyone's out of the box it just makes things far more difficult and complicated Why don't we just meet people on whatever terms they want us to and just get on with it without labelling people this that or the other It's all getting way to complex and futile and must mix kids heads up

I read all of Azie90s post and am no further forward in understanding ?

Isn't it strange? In an effort to be inclusive, people are being pigeonholed into little boxes with titles added.

I feel a bit clearer about these complex issues having read the links, well I skimmed yours Azie09 but found it informative. I read recently that children and young people on the ASD are statistically over represented amongst those expressing confusion or uncertainly about their gender/sexual identity. That isn't surprising is it, so many of these young people have always felt they don't quite fit anywhere. I'm not dismissing this , one of my grandchildren has begun to cross dress and talk about his confusion. Yes, he's on the ASD, very bright but socially ill at ease always.
There was a thread on this fairly recently when a number of us expressed unease at men who identify as women, but haven't had surgery can choose the female toilets and changing rooms. It's so complicated isn't it.

paddyann Do you think that your young people have received more support is because they are females who are transitioning to male and therefore will not be a threat to either women or men after their transition?

The only two men I have known who were transitioning from male to female didn't seem to be considered a threat by any body. They did have to suffer a lot of ridicule from people who thought they were a huge joke.