To down size or not to down size.

My parents died without making a will. They were very poor but always had bits of money saved for a rainy day. It was sad to see most of it go to a solicitor who had to sort everything out .

Jalima Finishing up the stash is like emptying one of those magic pots that the genies gave to deserving peasants, which refilled themselves when they were empty. You just need a bit of green fabric to set off those bits that you have had for 20 years so you buy some. Then the left-over from the green plus the blue from only 10 years ago would make a lovely combination but there isn't quite enough. None of your other scraps will go well with them, so it is back to the fabric shop . . .

Elegran I am knitting some 30 year old yarn at the moment.

However, I have just bought several 'fat quarters' and must do something with them!!

Actually what will cause our children more trouble and time than clearing our houses will be if we die without making a will.

Forget de-cluttering, or at least leave it until you have made a will. 60% of us will die intestate, and dealing with that is a real hassle. I know I have done it.

'piles of newspapers right up to the ceiling, bags of carrier bags crammed under tables, grandfather clocks laying on their backs in the loft together with pieces of chipped china, damaged furniture and rolls of old carpets etc etc.' oh dear....[no grandfather clock, though....]

That makes more sense, synonymous I had a job reconciling the two halves of your post.

Just an additional note to add that when I was talking about clutter I was talking about things like piles of newspapers right up to the ceiling, bags of carrier bags crammed under tables, grandfather clocks laying on their backs in the loft together with pieces of chipped china, damaged furniture and rolls of old carpets etc etc. It all certainly opened my eyes as it was outside of my own experience until then.
I have a few knick knacks, embroidered pictures, patchwork quilts, photograph albums, wedding present silver items from several generations, diaries and memory pieces and they are absolutely not clutter and our D.C. have put their own names down against most of them.

Let us remember too that although our families may find it a bind to clear our houses after we are gone, it is possible that if we clear everything out too soon they could have many years of us needing more and more "entertaining" by them because we have lost all the stuff that we might have been happily pottering around with. All those wools, fabrics, paints and paper, books, photographs, letters and memorabilia from the past, all the recipe books and the little-used but interesting kitchen gadgets, all the knickknacks brought back by our own friends, parents and inlaws from their holidays decades ago - these are like the toys that keep the children from continuously pestering to pay attention to them. Without them we would be far more demanding of their time!

Lets not assume that we all get incapable before we die. That doesn't necessarily apply.

Both my parents, at 85 at 92 were fully operational and running their lives until either their short final illness, or sudden death in their sleep. Their house was orderly and uncluttered, although I do admit the loft was full. They had downsized to a large bungalow when they retired, but the survivor lived their 27 years, plenty of time to clutter it up if he wished.

We also cleared the houses of DH's parents and one other relative on each side and it was the same, the relations were fit and well in mind and body before their short final illnesses. In all cases their houses were filled with the cargo of their lives, objects and belongings that mattered to them and we appreciated that and accorded them due respect.

As for dismissing the deceased belongings as clutter. How would the younger superior people who are so dismissive of our fond possessions feel if someone went round to their houses and treated their prized possessions as so much clutter to be chucked out?

Personally my sister and I appreciated the time we spent carefully disassembling our parent's home. We were disassembling our past lives as well. As we discovered things it brought back happy childhood memories as well as memories our parents's lives and happy marriage. By the time we had finally emptied the house we had reached a quiet acceptance that our parents and our joint lives were in the past and it was time to move on.

Hear, hear Elegran! We feel we have downsized sufficiently having now moved to a 3/4 bedroom bungalow even though some of our family howled with derision at our downsize. We are still intent on doing some living if things progress better in the next year or so and we want to enjoy the space we have for our individual hobbies and to do different things together as well.
When we looked around at properties it was incredible just how much paraphernalia some folk feel is essential for living and mind blowing how others just don't see the excess at all. Our new home was an executors' sale and we felt it was a terrible warning as it was so full up to the gunwales with antiques, collectibles and just stuff that it apparently took the whole family three months just to empty it. For example there were three grandfather clocks in the loft in addition to four in the house itself. How they got some of the stuff up into the loft was amazing and we were thankful for gravity being on our side to get it down and then out! Things were put into storage to be sent to the saleroom as they felt able. They tried their best to sell us stuff for which they couldn't find buyers or even cope with but we had plenty of our own! In the end we just told them to leave what they didn't want but was usable and we would find people who were really glad of them - which we did. Thankfully they didn't leave very much except white goods! It was strange how people collected so much stuff which was not really worth anything but equally strange that their children thought they could sell everything and make lots of money from it and I suppose if you have the time it is possible but the saying that "time is money" is equally true. They couldn't see that one person's version of a collection is another person's clutter nightmare.

Postpone the move, enjoy what you have now. If cash is a big issue, think you need two bedrooms.

Good post, Elegran...

I get where she is coming from too, having cleared out three homes after elderly relatives died.

BUT - none of us know when our time will come. ~It could be tomorrow, but it is far more likely to be some years away. Life expectancy gets longer as get older, and if we have made it to our 70s we stand a pretty good chance of still being around halfway through our 80s. That could be another 15 or 20 years in our sterile little downsized shoebox, with our nice things gone to the charity shop, our kitchen equipment reduced to a couple of small saucepans and a microwave, the little things that hold our memories chucked in the tip.

Please let us have some space to finish off our living time surrounded by the familiar things we love. We did our turn going through the things our parents had round them until the end (and finding lots of memories of our own among them) They didn't ask very much of us, and we don't ask very much of our families either.

Janeayresister Brilliant post, many thanks. You are so right. Will start today.

I do totally get where you're coming from, jane. However, I AM trying to do the aforesaid clear out/clean up while I still can but I really could do with just a bit of help from the people who will have to clear out/clean up when I'm gone. But they're 'fartoobusy' . So, I've given up on the Swedish death clean thingy and am currently putting stuff back in the loft and piling things into cupboards.

If you do have to declutter after elderly parents die, you can use house clearance firms and burn all but essential paperwork.
Charity shops can make money on silver, Meissen china etc if no-one in the family treasures it.

Did your DH inherit the Beautiful Hall Janeayressister*? And did you inherit your parents' house?

Or did they selfishly leave everything to the dogs' or cats' home?

I don't know whether anyone will HEED my post/rant but,

We have cleared out houses of elderly parents ( exhausting) looked after them, travelled miles to garden, clean and succour them. ( and are still doing it for the ones who are barely alive)
What we have learned is PLEASE PLEASE prepare for your old age. A downstairs toilet and bedroom and no stairs are the minimum requirement.

Our old folks did absolutely nothing to prepare and just sat/still sit in their totally unsuitable houses ( filled with a lifetime of collecting stuff) without a thought for who was going to clear up after them when they were gone/ are gone.

We ourselves are pensioners, with the old folks at one end and children and grandchildren at the other. We hardly have time for ourselves between sorting others' paperwork hospital appointments and emergencies,
We are downsizing from a huge property while we CAN. You need a three bedroomed place with at least one ensuite/ wet room plus bathroom.
You need three bedrooms because ...
one for you and one for your spouse ( if one becomes ill, they will need to sleep separately ) and one for any adult child that comes to help you....you WILL need help. It's unfair to ask a adult child to sleep on a lumpy bed/ Sofa/ bed when they come and help you.
You need to divest yourself of ALL but essential possessions. No one else will care about them and they will end up being skipped or taken to a charity shop. Or even worse stolen by people visiting ( you will become vulnerable)
I speak from experience as my MIL was brought up in a Beautiful Hall with servants and had exquisite stuff, and had absolutely hordes of it. She didn't use half of it and when it came to moving her, my children didn't want unused silver this and that, Meissen China etc or huge dark inlaid furniture. Oil paintings etc.etc and neither did we. Her rings disappeared during various hospital stays.
Same with my parents. They howled when we suggested a skip but they were no longer capable of moving a twig. They should have done it, I was examining gas bills from 1962/boxes of elastic band that had lost their elasticity / hundreds of buttons/ balls of string/ screws kept JUST IN CASE. They could name their dilapidated houses with huge unkept gardens 'we are keeping it JUST IN CASE.'
It was painful and laborious getting rid of their stuff. It caused us to seriously declutter.

Please please get your paper work in immaculate order, make wills and discuss finances/funeral arrangements with your children. Why make things harder for them? It is bloody selfish to think you will live forever.
I am heartily sick of clearing out houses and disposing of possessions and looking for relevant paper work amongst a foot high pile of mess. It is really seriously selfish not to do something before you get so old, someone else has to do it for you.
Rant over

We have just done the exercise.
Got our quite big bungalow with big garden plus huge hedge valued. Lowest valuation was 100k less than the high east so really no clue what it’s really worth.
We took the lowest guesstimate and looked at what we could move into, nearer shops and smaller etc. By the time we’d finished we decided it will all cost too much for the benefits gained. We are quite near a bus stop here.
We decided we would have to have 2bedrooms and we would go to a b&b when the whole family are here.
Maybe you should actually look at what you can get for your money gardenman next time the question comes up

I suppose it depends what you are downsizing from and to.

Downsizing from a 5 or 6 bedroomed house with 3 reception rooms/utility etc and several bathrooms to a 3 bedroomed house/bungalow with a garden is one thing, but moving from a 3 bedroomed house with a garden to a one bedroomed flat with no garden could feel claustrophobic.

Interestingly there is a recent thread, like here, in the Guardian where a husband wants to downsize so he can retire and and the wife does not want to move. Almost everyone there said they should downsize to make the most of the extra cash and freedom from house maintenance (allowing time first to deal with the recent loss of her parents). Here everyone says not to move somewhere small.

Gardenman99. I hope you will not have to work for too long. Another possibility would be to take in a lodger - say for 1 year initially. Be scrupulous about keeping the rent aside and using it to reduce the mortgage, also hopefully your wife will do as suggested and find some part time work giving you more money to pay it off. . May you soon both enjoy a long and happy retirement together.

101 rooms gardenman; no wonder you need to downsize....

The reason I posted on here about downsizing was because I knew I would get helpful advise which I have done. Thank you. We have lived in our house for 23 years our kids have grown up and flown the nest from here. I have now put the idea of downsizing into room 101.

Please think about how you will spend your time after you retire. Do you do everything together or each do your own thing, and what is your own thing?

Do either of you have a skill or handicraft that you enjoy? That will take up space and have tools - a sewing machine, a toolbox and folding workbench, paints and paper - to be stored somewhere when you are not doing it - probably in the spare bedroom.

Do you watch television and do you both like the same kind of thing? Where will you go when your wife is watching Strictly, where will she go when Top Gear is blasting forth yet again?

What if one of you is ill and needs a bed to yourself. Where will the other sleep?

A second bedroom can spend most of its time as a second living room, with a bed that becomes a sofa. In my spare room I have an Ikea sofa/daybed that can become a single or a double bed, and has drawers underneath for storage.

Perhaps all your leisure activities take place outside the house, so you think you will only use the little flat for eating and sleeping, but consider the future when you are less mobile and can't get about as easily and will spend whole days or weeks in the same livingroom getting on each other's nerves.

I 'downsized' over 14 years back, from my Edwardian family 5-bedroom house. I live by myself and lots of people suggested going into a flat. However, so pleased I ignored them. Purchased a terraced 1930's 3-bed house. With small bedroom being my home office, meant just a nice-sized double spare room - so one of the first things I had to do there was to have a loft extension, so any of my children living a good way away could come to stay with their children!! Whilst I was working I made this house ready for retirement, getting any major building/alteration work out of the way, and adding a en-suite and a utility room.
The loft room is not used much now, but as access to that is via a staircase built behind what was the old airing cupboard door, I can keep that door closed and virtually pretend it is not there. With the ground floor, being nearly open-plan, I do live in all the rest every day and have a small garden for me, the cat and the to feed the birds. My car lives on the forecourt directly outside my front door, making it easy to use and unload things from. So much better than living in a flat, and plenty of space when people do come to stay for a day or two.