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How do I tackle this? Help please.

(63 Posts)
chicken Sun 15-Apr-18 16:25:35

Here's a bit of background information first. My OH and I live in a large house in an expensive part of the country and the house is divided in two, one part for OH and me and the other part for DD ,SiL and family of grown-up children. OH is going downhill, especially in the memory department and I am beginning to have to take over more and more administration responsibilities. While finding out about the finances, which my OH has previously dealt with, I was horrified to discover that OH has, for the several years that DD and family have lived here, paid all the household bills for the entire house i.e. council tax, electricity, water and sewage bills, heating oil and building insurance. The only contribution from them has been that they pay the telephone bill. We gave them the half of the house legally ( foolishly), they both work, albeit in not highly paid jobs, and they spent the proceeds of the sale of their previous house on a holiday home in France. I feel that we are subsidising their way of life and that, in effect, they are using us and sponging off us. I want to stop this and ensure that they start to pay their rightful share of the bills but know that this is almost sure to cause an almighty row. OH is of the " Anything for a quiet life" brigade but I resent the thought that we (I) scrimped and scraped and went without all our working lives and , although we live comfortably, there is little spare . I shan't say anything to them yet (too angry) but would welcome any advice as to how to tackle this situation. Remember, we are living in the same house, and OH and I are both over 80.

GannyRowe Mon 16-Apr-18 11:05:53

Not sure if my situation helps, but I'm in a Granny annex and I pay my daughter a set sum each month in cash, to cover bills such as council tax, gas, electric etc. We felt trying to work out the minutiae of exact amounts was too complex, and thus actually works well.
When you have the talk, may I suggest something similar, with a couple of months lead in to the changes. If they are landed with a demand for the full figure each month straight away, the will kick up a fuss for sure. Good luck.

DotMH1901 Mon 16-Apr-18 11:21:49

Eglantine is right - you need to sit down with your family and say that, because OH is now unable to deal financially with bills etc, you will have to work out a fair distribution of the costs of running the house and will be asking them to take a share of this cost. Are they inheriting the house eventually? If so might be wise to point this out to them and say that otherwise you might have to look at downsizing to be able to manage financially? I wouldn't refer to how long they have lived rent free - that is in the past - just point out that future bills need to be paid jointly because circumstances have changed for you and OH.

Jaycee5 Mon 16-Apr-18 11:33:42

It doesn't sound as if the house was converted into two homes so much as you giving them a half interest in the whole house.
If that is the case, then so far as the Council is concerned you will be jointly and severally liable or the whole council tax and there will be no reason from their point of view to change anything.
The services as well will be a joint and several liability so it is for you to reach agreement with them as to what is a fair and reasonable division.
I agree with Kittycat. Speak to Age UK. Show them the title deeds or agreements relating to their occupancy and the bills and ask their advice before doing anything. If they are not helpful, as advice agencies vary from place to place, speak to CAB or someone else who can tell you exactly where you stand. Hopefully you will be able to agree amicably but if not you will need someone to help with a more formal letter.

Tweedle24 Mon 16-Apr-18 11:38:39

Maybe, if you don’t get the result you want after talking to them, you should consult a solicitor about the ownership of the house? I imagine they have a half share in the value of the house (shared ownership or something like that). Do you have Power of Attorney over your husband’s affairs? It sounds like a complete minefield. I do hope that the conversation does the trick.

EmilyHarburn Mon 16-Apr-18 11:45:48

wait until you are calm. Have half an hour free consultation with a suitable lawyer. this is so that you know your rights and what to do. also you will need every penny you have for care for your husband. If he went into a home it would seem 1/4 of the house is his and then might belong to the council etc. this is very complex so get a professional analysis of the situation before you start requiring that the correct payments are made to your by your daughter and son in law. So sorry you are in this situation. All the very best.

newnanny Mon 16-Apr-18 12:45:47

There may only be one council tax bill for the whole property. Even if you advised the council your dd and family were living there you may still pay the same amount as it is per property not per adult person. All that may happen is they reclassify as 2 residences and charge your dd as well as you. If it is still one house there may only be one electricity supply for the property which you are paying. If that is the case you could ask your dd to contribute to the electricity bill. The same may apply to the water bill. If there is only one meter there will be one reading and one bill. Again you could ask your dd for a contribution to water bill. If you have legally gifted 1/2 of property to your dd then she could demand the house be sold and you would have choice but to move. You are wise to calm down first. I would go to see the CAB to find out how you might stand legally. You could always say to your dd you have given them a good help but you have little left and wish them to contribute a little more to bills to make it a more equitable arrangement. Good Luck.

newnanny Mon 16-Apr-18 12:47:22

Also just a thought but your dh may wish to continue to help out dd and her family. His thoughts should be considered too.

lovebeigecardigans1955 Mon 16-Apr-18 13:02:46

I think Eglantine has the right idea. Tell them that funds are running low and you simply can't afford to continue paying these bills anymore. Maybe give them say, two months, notice for them to sort out their finances so they can make a fair contribution. In the long run it hasn't really done them any favours to avoid paying their way. It's a difficult subject to bring up, but bring it up you must. Good luck.

chicken Mon 16-Apr-18 13:03:43

To clarify a few points, D and I are now tenants in common, OH having relinquished all legal rights to the property. The house was extended 20 years ago by building the wing in which OH and I live so that S2 and family could live here while managing the business. They have since emigrated and that's when D and family moved in. I have just found out that D pays a direct debit into OH's account, an amount which covers 50% of the council tax, so this still leaves us paying about £4000 or more in bills. I don't think either of us could sell up independently as the two parts of the house are not physically separate and in any case it's a tied property so would be difficult to sell. I would certainly not want to get involved in legal dispute--that way leads to disaster, and I don't want to take any action which would lead to a breakdown in relationship. Tricky!!!

Situpstraight Mon 16-Apr-18 13:04:15

I hope they at least pay for a TV Licence as you are over the age limit ?

Also any age related benefits you get might not be due to you, if you are sharing a house, rather than having a house that has been split into separate dwellings.

Situpstraight Mon 16-Apr-18 13:05:17

Sorryour posts crossed?

Situpstraight Mon 16-Apr-18 13:09:54

If it’s an Agricultural Tie and no one has worked in the industry for 10 years or so, then you can apply to have the tie lifted.

Situpstraight Mon 16-Apr-18 13:12:14

Sorry chicken it seemed that it was all fairly straightforward but if you are tenants in common and your DD says no, then there isn’t much you can do about it.
It’s a minefield and I hope that your DD hasn’t borrowed against her half of the property.

123kitty Mon 16-Apr-18 13:33:36

Point out to your family that as your OH is now unable to deal with financial matters concerning the home and you don't feel able to deal with it, ask them to take over this side of things. Then tell them how they must let you have a breakdown of the household expenses, as you certainly wish to contribute. You need to get the addressee name changed on all your bills. Good luck.

sarahellenwhitney Mon 16-Apr-18 14:16:42

Chicken
Do you have a solicitor? Your task is going to be one that requires legal advice.You say your family ' legally' own half the house. Please let the solicitor decide what is legal.
Make an appointment and take ALL paperwork with you. You will not be able to recuperate what DH had paid out as it was his choice and unbeknown to you.It is now time to put brakes on the gravy train You are 8o and do not deserve any financial a worries
Do not be intimidated as it appears the family reaction to any changes, which you are entitled to make, will not be met with open arms.
Again, seek professional advice.

Jaycee5 Mon 16-Apr-18 14:21:47

You can still sell if you can get the tie lifted. You would need to get advice from the right solicitor though if you want to think about doing that as it would obviously not be straightforward. I think that it is a good idea to get the legal side clarified in your mind in case you need to make a crisis move yourself at some stage. You would be less able to deal with any personal or technical difficulties unless you are very clear as to the steps you need to take.

Silverlining47 Mon 16-Apr-18 14:23:06

I think 123kitty's suggestion is very good. Although the flavour of the original post was one of shock I can see in some ways how this situation might have evolved.
A while ago my OH and I set up an arrangement with my daughter that she could live in our flat (we moved abroad) but we'd keep a bedroom solely for us whenever we needed to return for business etc. Like your OH my husband is casually generous (and very likeable because of that) and we all get on very well. We paid the bills, she made a small contribution. After a while it was regarded as HER home and the dynamics changed!. Too many details to go into here....but I wonder if your DD and SiL accept the original arrangement and see their role as being on hand as you and OH grow older and become less able to care for the house and/yourselves and therefore feel the arrangement works for everyone.
Apart from the shock of discovering that you are paying all the bills I wonder if you have an actual financial worry or more an emotional reaction made worse by not wanting to enter an uncomfortable discussion and what it might lead to. These thoughts can be very stressful.

sarahellenwhitney Mon 16-Apr-18 14:32:39

Chicken
Tenants in common of what.? Your situation is one that only a solicitor should deal with.

sarahellenwhitney Mon 16-Apr-18 14:51:12

Sit up straight
Tennants in Common .ie both have interests in the same property / business and can do what they wish with their share.
This is why it is essential to get a solicitor/lawyer.

Situpstraight Mon 16-Apr-18 14:59:50

I know that * Sarah* I meant that if the DD flatly refuses to contribute there is little that the OP can do about it, as she has said that she doesn’t want the relationship to suffer and doesn’t want to go down the legal route.
Although the OP or DD can do what they want with their share - if it’s a shared house, what can be done ? Apart from borrow against it, which won’t solve any problems and will just create more.
I hope they all agree to the sum to be contributed and don’t need legal advice.

chicken Mon 16-Apr-18 15:07:01

Thank you all for your advice. I shall double check all the financial details, give a lot of your comments careful consideration and think very carefully about my next steps.

grandtanteJE65 Mon 16-Apr-18 15:33:09

I would work out what the bills come to then tell your family quite calmly and honestly that you never knew they were not paying their share, but that looking at your household expenses you can see, you cannot afford to pay all the utility bills. Say you need them to pay a reasonable share based on what they actually use of heat, electricity etc. etc.

I don't know whether it is practicable to put in water meters etc, or whether you are going to have to suggest dividing the total by the number of adults living in the building.

I hope it works out without a row. Have you considered that you might need to sell up and move to sheltered accommodation or somewhere where you and your DH can get the help he needs. Now might be the time to be honest about your worries concerning DH and ask what your family visualises they can and will do to help.

Who actually owns the house and can legally sell it?

VIOLETTE Mon 16-Apr-18 15:46:48

A worrying situation for you and like others have said, the best course of action would be to see a Solicitor ,..... The CAB may be able to advise before hand .... if cost is a problem sometimes Solicitors have free appointments so you can discuss briefly your problem and they will advise you the best course of action to take .....do this before you mention it to the children or even your DH.....then you will have an idea of what can be done.

Then; armed with info you could broach the subject with the children: You could explain that now you are both getting older, the situation may arise when you will need care, and with the preset arrangements you will not be able to afford it .......you could mention that it the monetary situation is too difficult for you should you need residential care; your part (or maybe the whole) of the house value could be taken into account for repayment of the care fees .......and tell them how concerned you are as you are currently paying all the household bills apart from the contribution to the Council Tax; and can no longer afford it, and would welcome their ideas about what could happen in the future if this situation arises ..... you ,may find that they have been thinking about this themselves ....how often do they use their French holiday home and do or did, you get to use it as well?..... seems a bit unfair if y ou did not !

think long and hard after taking advice and work out what to say and when .......very best of luck ....you did well not to explode ...Not sure I could have kept calm ::

sarahellenwhitney Mon 16-Apr-18 17:05:19

He who hesitates etc etc Sorry for that but how long do you want your present situation to go on
DH from your description is not in a position where he is able to deal with finances and you do not want to approach your daughter. A solicitor is your best bet and will give you advice. Whether you take it or not is up to you but at least it is better than attempting to sort it out with those nearest and dearest which can cause rifts if it is not to their liking. Been there. Hope it all works out for you.

Magrithea Mon 16-Apr-18 17:23:32

We have a house that has a two up two down, annexe which from the outside looks like part of the house. We have to pay separate council tax/rates/whatever its called these days on it as, I was told when I asked about it, it could be let as a separate dwelling (which it could!). At the moment we have a friend of DS1's living there who's paying a small amount for utilities. I think OP should ensure that her DD and family are billed separately for their half of the house and bills, it may mean putting new meters in for utilities but better that than being used to support a holiday home in France!!