Giving money to people on the street

I was recently collecting for a “well known listening charity”
And it was quite heart warming people s comments and good wishes and donations, so thank you all who give,
I do give to beggars and try not to dwell on are they genuine
Or not ,

I probably should know better than to rise to Gabriella's inflammatory, judgemental and frankly disgusting post about homelessness, drug and alcohol addiction and associated mental health issues.
Like granny activist, Ive worked with many people who had tough times throughout their lives as a result of which, they needed help. Few of the people I met through my work in over 40 years were frightening. The one's that were inevitably ended up with long term prison sentences as a result of the crimes they committed. The vast majority fitted into the 'their but for the grace of God go I' category.
The most vulnerable are often asked to make the hardest choices. Women with abusive partners are asked to get him out rather than face statutory involvement with their children. Getting him out, may mean he's on the streets. He could be a former service man who has PTSD, a man she'd loved for years before the service he gave his country left him a risk to her and her children.
No easy solutions. Especially when services, hostels for men and for women, drug and alcohol services, family centres, mental health services etc etc are becoming increasingly rare. I keep returning to the mantra - Shameful.
Gabriella, I'm sure you're too safe in your bubble to believe any of this could ever happen to you or your own loved one's. Be thankful rather than judgemental.

Who are any of us to judge why they're there in the first place ? We know nothing of the circumstances.

Thanks ga for the clarification. The "system" is clearly flawed.

Your last sentence says it all - the need for connection.

Thank you for the I, Daniel Blake suggestion, I will watch it at some time.

When you ask a ten year old what they want to be when they grow up no-one ever says they would like to be begging or sleeping on the streets. I have met and worked with some very difficult homeless people, most have been a joy to work with, some of them are quite frightening, many of them have mental illnesses, some of them unpleasant and unlikeable characters, but all of them were once ten year olds with aspirations to something better than a sleeping bag on a cold pavement and any of them, but for a switch in circumstances, could have been me or mine.

Grannyknot I have permission from the man I mentioned to talk about his particular situation (he has been featured in the local paper in support of our work with homelessness and last week appeared on TV in support of the local Foodbank) so I can answer your question without breaking confidentiality.

This man has never had a mobile phone (until three weeks ago!) and has no access to, or understanding of computers. The benefit system relies on phones and computers as their primary means of communication so most people in his situation give the number of a 'friend' who may or may not pass on messages in a timely manner. Jobcentre appointments may be missed through this happening or because the claimant is ill or in hospital and sanctions are immediately imposed. When you call the DWP you can (and I very often do) wait up to an hour on average (the longest I waited was an hour and twenty five minutes before I finally had to give up). At the time my client was calling the DWP it was a premium rate number and he was feeding pound coins into a public telephone. In the end he gave up trying to navigate the system and, in his own words, preferred to take his chances with starvation. I've said this many times on here, but if you truly want to understand then watch the film 'I, Daniel Blake'; it depicts the struggles that many people have to access the benefits system - and things since that film were made have got a lot worse! If you pm me your address I will even send you a free copy.

Read this if you want to find out why these calls to the DWP were finally made free in November of last year:
www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2017-06-21a.156.2

On Friday I got a call from this man who was clearly distressed because his benefits payment (of £73.10) had not been paid on the day they should have been. It took me most of the morning to sort it out and I was told it had been caused by a 'computer glitch' at the DWP (sadly my client can't 'sanction' them for their incompetence). My client said that without me he wouldn't have been able to sort it out; he didn't know who to call, wouldn't have had the patience to wait for the 48 minutes it took to have the call answered and would have been too upset to answer their questions properly.

Many people can't and don't navigate the benefits system without help - the CAB and advice charities where I live are overwhelmed and unable to meet the local need, the police here have become a front-line mental health service and people are sinking into depression and debt. Some of them will turn to (initially prescription) drugs and alcohol because they can't face life without help of some sort. In my experience those that do make it through the system are usually the ones with strong family and community relationships.

I have never seen an Indian or a Chinese person begging...ever. They will do whatever it takes, living in 1 room, doing what some Brits would call 'menial' jobs, anything, rather than sit and beg. I get tired of seeing and stepping over cardboard, old sleeping bags, piles of rubbish and 'hungry and homeless' signs in Guildford. Police remove anyone asking for money. I said that they bring down the tone of the High Street, with their belongings strewn about and dog there to garner sympathy. They've been offered accommodation (both able and in their 30s) but refused to follow the rules and were drinking, taking homeless women to their shared room and not cleaning up after themselves. Needles and spoons in the bathrooms etc. Clogged up toilets. Who'd want to help dossers like that?

I never give to panhandlers, just DDs to RNLI, KSSAIR, SA and Shelter.
Some street sleepers don't want help, don't want a place to live and some are addicts. I'm certainly not funding their habits. They make more money on the street than the average Joe makes in a week at work.

A lot of poverty is hidden too. It's not just about street begging and homelessness that is sadly visible.

It's among those who are working usually for rip-off wages which is supposed to keep a home and family going. There's very little left to fritter away on Christmas or on holidays/breaks away. This is the hidden poverty. People just can't manage-------then the country wonders why there's so much mental illness ! It's the worry and stress.

I had an uncle who was a staunch communist and I can remember some of his " speeches " which have come back to haunt me in lots of ways. He had 2 sisters living in East Berlin and he regularly visited them via " Checkpoint Charlie " as it was known before the dividing wall was knocked down.

Those living in East Berlin at the time were completely cut off from the West and all that it enjoyed while the sisters lived in abject poverty and unable to say or do anything about it. By the time the wall came down, the sisters had died.

We in this country can speak up and thousands have but this poverty issue keeps falling on deaf ears as it's on the increase year after year but I can't help feeling the huge divide that we have between North and South and why such bitterness exists between these divisions.

Why can't the politicians see this ? Because they're alright,Jack !

Years ago, long before I ever saw beggars on the street, there was a thin, roughly dressed woman aged about 50, who wandered around the town looking lost and frightened. She spoke to me of her tragic sounding life with abusive husband and uncaring children and asked me to help her.
I was new to the area but I told the vicar who already knew about her. She spent a few nights in the church hall but she preferred to sleep rough and there were piles of soggy clothes in out of the way places where she must have slept. She was often intoxicated and shouted at people or threw back food she had been given.
Later I heard she had a flat but couldn't look after herself.
She finally died in the psychiatric hospital. It was a shame but mental illness is like physical illness, and can't always be cured.

I always give money to homeless people, begging on the floor.
I just can't walk past, some may be scammers but I can't take the risk that they are probably genuine.
I also take in homeless teenagers through The Depaul Charity and look after them in my own home, until they are housed by the local authority. Most of them just need a chance.

Iam64 I meant to add thanks for your explanation regarding the mill towns.

Where I live (near Wimbledon) we make up shoe boxes of donations for people who are homeless every year at this time and the railway station collects the boxes and they are distributed via one of the homeless charities. I like making those up, I usually will hand knit a paid of gloves and I slip a personal note into the gloves "Made with love" or something like that.

grannyactivists informed posts don't seem to touch the few posters here who are more focussed on the occasional scammer, than the thousands of genuinely desperate and homeless individuals. Again, grannyactivist sets out the reasons behind the growth in homelessness. In Manchester, we have people sleeping in shop doorways all over the city. These people are not 'scammers' or 'cheats', they're vulnerable people who have lost hope. The Mayor, Andy Burnham has been doing a lot of work around the region, to reduce homelessness. Until we have a government with a more well informed, compassionate approach to public services and council housing, this problem will continue to grow.
The number of homeless children has continued to rise, up by 50% in 5 years I read recently. Most of those children are in hostels or B and B's, run by private landlords. Dirty, unsafe, vermin infested and with an entire family confined to one room. Shameful

Re earlier posts regarding the Asian community - I wasn't talking about South Asian people, I had in mind the large Korean community near where I live, yet I've never seen a Korean beggar on locally - so I am presuming there must be a good community infrastructure that takes care of people who fall on hard times.

grannyactivist I am puzzled as to why the gentleman you describe who has no mental ill health, doesn't misuse substances, worked until he had misfortune, could not navigate the Benefits system, when so clearly many people can and do? Genuine question.

I think the percentage of people who are homeless and with concurrent mental health or substance misuse problems are about 75%, it is high, as you say.

Many, many, many street homeless people have mental health problems and therefore are unable to make good choices and services to help them are stretched to the limit and beyond.

My point exactly paddyann

There but for the grace of God etc

In our town in Berkshire, there are two people sleeping rough that I know of. The young woman shot into our charity shop a few weeks ago and seemed distraught, shouting about being followed. She wouldn’t sit and have a drink of water, and disappeared. Since then she has set up home in the back/ side door of a bank. Her belongings grow daily, and her bed now is several layers high and surrounded by soft toys. She has been offered a bed in a hostel, but refused. I don’t know how long she will be allowed to stay where she is.
In the last week or so, a young man has set up home, in a covered passageway to Waitrose and outside a card shop. The other morning, he was fast asleep and flat out, but where he goes during the day, I have no idea. They always seem to have things to eat, and both like having something to read.
I don’t know what the answer is , but it is so sad to see these young people seemingly with nothing.

I used to give money to people begging but I have stopped now. It really is a game for some, who make big bucks.

In a car park I watched two young men get out of a nice car, finish their burgers, take off their jackets and put on hoodies and gloves. They bid each other farewell then one took up his position sitting on a blanket on the ground by the car park pay machines.

I know I have been frightened by this man. He knows women (especially) will be taking out their purses right by him, in a darkish, open multi-story car park. After work, I used to encounter him and felt almost obliged to give him my spare change. He was quite intimidating, yet had all the 'pathetic' chat about being hungry and having nowhere to live. He was a complete fraud. I didn't dare confront him but always felt after seeing what he was up to that I had to park elsewhere and have a longer walk into work.

I saw the programme about the organised begging too Grannyknot The man described above and THREE accomplices were up in court a few months later, and so many stories came out in the comments section about their fake 'distress' and people who had been taken in or intimidated by them.

So now I buy a Big Issue and make regular donations to charity. In the past I have given sandwiches and coffee to people on the streets but knowing it's a lucrative game for some and that many homeless prefer the streets to hostel places which are available, makes me wary and angry.

Sadly, most of those who are genuinely homeless have drug or addiction habits and according to my Sally Army neighbour, they use their money to fund their habits. She advised not to give money. She says soup kitchens open in the evening for all and regular night volunteers go out with sandwiches and hot drinks. We are a compassionate nation. She said donations to the SA or homeless charities so they could continue their work was the better alternative.

Scammers have cashed in on what can be a very lucrative set up and some are very convincing.

When? Rough sleeping in England has increased for the seventh consecutive year with figures up 169% since 2010. (conservative estimate)
Why?
More low paid/zero hours contract jobs leading to debt that is compounded by people taking out 'payday' loans;
more relationship breakdowns;
more drug and alcohol problems due to treatment/rehab centres closing down;
Universal Credit roll out being mismanaged in epic proportions;
more people losing Disability Living Allowance/Personal Independence Payments;
cuts to ancillary support services;
people having fewer 'life skills' such as simple cookery and understanding of budgeting.

There are no two people that I've met whose reasons for becoming homeless are exactly the same, but the swingeing cuts across services have disproportionately affected the poorest people in society.

Grannyactivist WHEN with WHY being the BIG Question, that what we are observing on streets and city centres around the UK and cannot be denied is on the increase, begin.



.

We live in a small town so no begging on the street. I don't buy a Big Issue since I saw the foreign (I think Romanian but could be wrong) woman selling it getting into a large, quite new Range Rover at the end of the day & driving off.

Christmas to me just isn't the same with so many people going without. I keep losing my appetite worrying and thinking about them and the children who won't have Christmas as we know it. It breaks my heart.
What a Godforsaken country this is to allow these things to happen. It's an utter disgrace !

I wouldn't judgeMawBroon how many people who live comfortable lives depend on a drink or three to get them through the day.So if my couple of pounds dulls the pain for a wee while thats fine.Obviously I'd rather it was sppent on nourishment but as they say one mans meat is another mans poison.
Homelessness is down over 6% in Scotland in the past year .A lot of that due to the amazing work done by Social Bite who along with the Scottish Government are providing homes and support to find help and work to people who lived on the streets .
This years Social Bite sleep out raised several millions of pounds which will go towards more housing like the ones at the Social Bite village outside Edinburgh .I believe the campaign and Sleep out was taken into the North of England this year too .

MOnica Hats off lets wave the flag then to our being members of the EU when incidents like you witnessed are taking place and without a doubt not the only ones but in many other parts of the UK.

Do you know, sometimes I think, what if it goes on drink or drugs? Who am I to judge?
That said I give to the Salvation Army, Crisis at Christmas and Shelter as they make more efficient use of any donations.