ISIS girl

GoneGirl.... Are you for real? If she does come back to the UK her baby would be far better being adopted and raised in a safe and loving environment. However it seems her baby is almost due so the poor child will obviously be born where she is now.

Actually for once I agree with maryeliza! Wowzer. We usually do not concur on much. She is a little too over zealous for my taste in that she gets so het up & can be a something of a tour de force.
However the thread was getting out of hand. Some posters seemed quite muddled about the girl’s name, others picked up the wrong end of the stick and ran with it and then others (by thinking of the wrong girl) then posted remarks about that girl’s father - which although factual for that girl was incorrect about this girl.
No wonder maryeliza blew a gasket!
Keeping tabs on this thread was a bit like herding cats!
Perhaps ? was good to calm down. But it probably wouldn’t have clarified the messages.

GrannyGravy13

Cheers see you later behind the bike sheds

Iam64 you refer to the Catholic and Unionist communities in N.I. I absolutely cannot agree with your comment that "the different communities have support for their paramilitaries embedded"

I come from one of these communities. My general circle of family and friends from both communities want nothing to do with any paramilitaries and certainly do not support them.

Such a sweeping comment shows a total disrespect and lack of understanding and consideration for the ordinary hard working population here in N.I. who are honest and honourable, who are good neighbours, and the salt of the earth.

If course there are sections of the community where this comment may apply but such attitudes are deplored by the majority.

To cast such a comment broadly and generally is nonsense.

Coolgran65 Do not blame Iam64. I said it first. I am half Irish and a catholic. The IRA and Protestant para militaries would not exist, if it were not for the support given them quite extensively within their communities.
Of course not everyone in the respective religious communities supports them, and there are many families like yours, but, even within the catholic community in the UK, and not in predominantly Irish catholic areas, I have met priests and fellow parishioners who were, quite extreme supporters of the IRA and their actions.

As you so calmly point out PECS family of serving military see things differently.

I have no doubt some of the armed forces do some good work and those behind the Caliphate are veil.

However the armed forces are just that, people who have chosen a career and are ready to fight.

Regarding the names, it is important to be accurate. It's one thing to be chatting about my gs or dd or whatever ( God knows that's confusing). It's quite another to be confused or confusing when talking about this issue.

vile not veil, sorry.

This is a really difficult situation. She was 15 when no doubt she was radicalised. Which is an age when young people are easily influenced.
She could quite easily still be a risk.
I have no idea what the government should do yet. There ars probably people more experienced in this than us GNres

MOnica, thanks for pointing out to coolgran, that my comment was to thank you for the one you made about support being embedded in various communities. Like you, I have friends who explain the history of Ireland if anyone dares to criticise freedom fighters, and I know others who defend unionist paramilitaries.
I live in an area with a large Bangaladeshi community, like the one that SB comes from. The children were born here but after 9/11 a local 6th form college had staff concerned about how best to remove posters supporting the bombings in the US.
Neither of the above comments mean I see terrorists in every family, it's just to acknowledge the influence of history on where we are now with so many world conflicts.

It is only when individuals admit the faults that are within their own community that those faults can be dealt with.

It is the 'nothing to do with me, for I am virtuous' or 'alternatively 'nothing to do with me as they cannot be part of my community because they flout the rules ' that protects those miscreants whether Christian, Muslim, or any other religion and enables them to flourish.

I have mixed feelings about this girl, yes she was very young when she left this country and she was possibly groomed and misled by a romantic dream. But she has lost babies, seen severed heads and seems to have no regrets. Perhaps if she were more remorseful I might feel more pity. As it is I wonder about her taking up a place in a refugee camp which is meant for people escaping a war they didn't want. Perhaps we could leave her there and take in some genuine refugees instead.

I have just caught up with the pages since yesterday afternoon and would like to know which posts are racist please? To claim racism but not show where you that claim comes from is rather shallow imo. It is just such claims which make people frightened to criticise those who look different and has been the reason child grooming and wrong education have thrived. I do think calling anything a ...........phobia is difficult because phobia means fear of and surely that should not be illegal. I wish we could have a better word. For example homophobia, I don't think anyone is scared of homosexuals although they may have other unpleasant feelings. Yes, I'm probably being pedantic.

It's not just the general public who are against Shamina Begum returning to the UK.
East London imam Moulana Malik from the Baitul Aman mosque has warned that he doesn't want her back in the community and that she is a danger.
If she manages to get to a British Consulate, we will have no option than to let her back but personally I would be happy if no one who has supported the vile actions of ISIS comes back into our country.

Nonnie suely you can spot a racist comment? It is perfectly legitimate to be critical of a persons's actions or choices..regardless of their racial or religious background.
It is racist to be more critical of a person's actions or choices because of their ethnicity or to then make sweeping generalisations about a person's family or community or simply to make hate filled remarks based on a racial or religious profile alone.

PECS
I do not know where, when, how or why Begum's family originally came to the UK. They may well have come because they did support the way of life here!

I think we are agreed on that point as I said the family may well have embraced life in the UK - and young people become radicalised by what they see on the internet.

It was merely your point about missionaries and linking them to such groups as ISIS that I disagreed with.

There was a man on BBC breakfast this morning who has been fighting Isis in Syria.
He claimed that members of Isis have been told to get back to their own country and fight from there.

I think it’s racist when you simply can’t be bothered to get your facts right about a group of people who share a particular religion and think it doesn’t matter if you give false information about them. And when you think that the rule of law shouldn’t apply to them, regardless of what they might of might not have done. That is also exactly the position of the lynch mob both in the past and now.

I can believe that petra. In fact, I think it goes without saying tbh. I dont want any of the fighters back here. Let them go to hell.

maryeliza it's not racist to get confused about these names. The initials don't help either.

I have not heard any sensible person in RL suggest her baby should be taken away and put up for adoption. Over-zealous social workers of old come to mind here.

OmaforMaya, no. I floated in on a cloud of fairydust trailing pink unicorns and firecrackers.

People of different races can be Jewish.
Or Christian, Hindu, Sikh, Jedi etc or agnostic or atheist in fact.

I think it is indefensible to try to use the word 'racist' as an argument against someone who finds another's action abhorrent.

As I said earlier, the vast majority of Muslims in this country and worldwide find the actions of ISIS and other such groups abhorrent too - and they are suffering at their hands.

Ok I have just re read this thread with my correct glasses on, along with several articles on line.

I apologise for getting AA father and SB father confused.

I think it is well known in "certain circles" that since Daesh has been slowly beaten back in Syria that its followers have been told to "fight their war" anyway they can. If that involves returning to their own countries and carrying out atrocities we should be extremely careful before repatriating any person from these areas.

Daesh has nothing to do with Islam. It is a barbaric way of life chosen by some. I have no idea why anyone would want to behead, rape or torture another human being just for being different.

Being anti Daesh does not make me a racist.

As it is I wonder about her taking up a place in a refugee camp which is meant for people escaping a war they didn't want.
That is a very valid point trisher

Someone upthread mentioned that she is in a refugee camp in Turkey but I don't think that is the case - I think the camp is in Syria.
Is this a new camp? Would those associated with ISIS have been sent to the same camps as refugees from their regime? It is possible because there will be people who have been living in that town in fear and all will be fleeing - in the chaos who will know?

I don’t know anyone sensible in RL who would think a baby should be left with a mother who thinks beheading, rape, slavery, killing innocent children and killing homosexuals is quite acceptable.

I wondered about the camp too. Is it just for IS supporters? Is it secure (as in keeping them locked in)? Who runs it?