Michael Jackson

Yes, we need to know that paedophilia exists, and always has. We do know that now. I don’t feel we need to know specific details about Michael Jackson (or anyone else) turned into basically entertainment. Because that is what it was. What exactly have we gained from knowing these details? We don’t even know if they are true. I think it’s just prurience.

Hurdygurdy as you slept through most of it it would have been best to make no comment than the lighthearted post you did make

Grandma70 that is a terrible post and I m sorry to be blunt, a hugely blinkered opinion Its time to open your eyes and realise that this is a huge subject that has been swept under the carpet for generations The programme was factual, no hysteronics or sensationalising and to call it ‘cheap scandalmongering for those that enjoy that sort of thing’ says more about you than the people posting on here who have understanding and compassion for the subject
Your post has made me feel very angry so in answer to your inane question do we need to know The answer is YES and as you seem to have so little understanding you of all people need to know

Even if they aren’t making it up - and who knows? - why on earth make a television programme about it? Do we need to know? I don’t. Cheap scandalmongering for the delectation of those who enjoy that sort of thing.

Rich men have always been able to do what they like, and to pay off those they abuse. MJ was no different- his actions were those of a pedophile and he paid off the families of the little children he wanted to be with. The idea that all these men would now be making the story up, is beyond belief.

I always felt so sorry for him. He was clearly phobic about so many things and anyone with a phobia needs sympathy and understanding, not further condemnation.

I know you weren’t KatyK but I appreciate you sharing your experiences to help people understand.

Thank you nightowl I wasn't looking for sympathy. Just saying that sometimes we need to walk a mile in someone else's shoes.

And mcem for you too

KatyK

HurdyGurdy, you obviously inhabit a different planet if you think an adult " sleeping with " children is OK. As if any amount of money would even touch the sides of the bills these victims will pay for therapy.

Absolutely right nightowl.
Nothing so horrific but so close to home that it never has been and now never will be discussed.

HurdyGurdy Perhaps you should watch the whole programme instead of keep falling asleep and then judging on a few minutes here and there. Just saying ...

Well said nightowl and "Magicwriter*.

My heart goes out to all those abused......

I think unless you've lived through it or a violent childhood, it's not really possible to say how you would react as an adult.
My own childhood left me pretty afraid to show emotion to this day. So who knows what these men are feeling.

nightowl ????????????????????????????????????
❤️

Do people really have to ask why abused children do not speak out? Either at the time or as adults? What sheltered lives some people have led. They are fortunate. Or blinkered.

I am certain that amongst the very large membership of Gransnet, there will be very many individuals who have kept, and continue to keep their own experience of abuse secret.

Sometimes victims of abuse find it hard to show emotion I believe.

Am amazed that anyone who watched the whole of that documentary can still believe MJ was innocent. The boy who had the long hair when he was 7, you could see the sadness in his eyes when MJ was giving a ‘new’ child his affections. The one who was a dance choreographer was really successful until his mental health problems started to stop him from working so well. Why would they put themselves out there, describing exactly what happened to them, knowing they would be hated and probably humiliated. I felt so sad for them. And the Australian guys brother seemed to be nearly as affected by his brother. He was struggling to overcome his hatred for their mother. He blamed her for their fathers suicide as well as allowing his brother to be put in such a vulnerable position. I hope they can get through this and that it doesn’t affect their own families.

As for the debate about the colour of mixed race children, I had a white pal who had a relationship with a black guy and had a son who was totally black from his colour to his features, you would never have thought she was his birth mother, so, no one can really say if he was their biological father or not.

Anja - "Sorry, but watching these documentaries it seems very possible that people are lying. I’ve been watching the body language and I’m not in the least convinced."

EXACTLY what I thought whilst watching the very short part that I did. I started off watching, fell asleep, and then woke up at a point where one of the boys was giving a VERY graphic description of what he allegedly experienced.

I watched a little bit more of the programme before falling asleep again, but the sense I got was that they were delivering a very well rehearsed speech.

I feel that if they were SO traumatised by what they had allegedly experienced, then even if they had been happy to take part in hours upon hours upon hours of interviews (for them all to be edited down into the two programmes) then surely SOME emotion would have shown on their faces. In the excerpts I saw? Zero emotion.

I am also mindful of the fact that you can't libel the dead (hence me saying "allegedly"), so they are free to say whatever they want to without fear of comeback. And no doubt were handsomely compensated for their time.

I dont care what skin colour he is.

I would be very concerned about MKs general behaviour and any effects of his sexualised behaviour could have caused his children and any other children he has been with.
It is often a behaviour that the perptrators cannot easily stop.
There must be many of MKs hangers on or who are still trying to get money out of his behaviour blackmail.

Do not ever take the view, " Never mind he was a peadophile he sang well. "

Sparkle fizz I'm not saying I don't believe the two men, and although the evidence seems compelling I'd still like to know why all the other boys he "befriended" have refused to speak out.
I remember the Jordan Chandler case and the fact he was paid off to the tune of millions. That made me think, but he's never come forward to tell his story as far as I know.
All I'm saying is it's not as cut and dried as it might appear from this film. There's an an awful lot more to the story.
By the way, I'm not, and have never been a MJ fan.

if this was an ordinary man no-one would be making excuses for him........

I agree BlueBelle - "pretty obvious in this case".

Anja I never blindly accept anything, in the media or out of it.

I'm sorry if my post came across as rude but I just can't believe that people are judging these young boys who appeared in court (a terrifying experience for adults let alone young children who have been threatened), and cannot see the terrible pain and trauma written across their faces.

Today it's reported that the FBI had a file on MJ because 2 boys in Mexico had alleged assault.

Pretty obvious though this time putting all the ‘clues’ together Anja

Do you know how few victims ever speak out because of fear Can you imagine a child telling its mother and not being believed it happens so often (I m not referring to the Jackson case but child abuse in general) I imagine a false accusation is a tiny tiny percentage compared to what has happened but not been acknowledged or believed

Sparklefizz how rude to say ‘with people like you around’ when someone is trying to weigh up whether or not a documentary is presenting the facts. We all need to assess what is being alleged. You cannot just blindly accept everything in the media as fact.

Victims deserve a fair hearing, yes. But so do those alleged to be peadophiles. No every allegation is true. I personally know a child who made false allegations against a HT I used to work with.