Troublesome children

I wonder if the problem here could be that some schools have now broken up for Easter and the children could be getting bored? They need plenty of activities to keep them occupied and out of mischief.

I was going to suggest Play Dough, excellent for idle hands, unless they start throwing it.

Hi Bellesgran. I used to work in CAMHS and I'd suggest that you get a referral to this team with the aim of attending The Incredible Years Webster Stratton parenting course, which you'll be able to attend with another primary carer which I'd recommend is either parent.

It's difficult to offer effective solutions here as a full assessment needs completing to help you with effective behaviour modification,but a suggestion that anger generally covers fear may give you something for you to think about whilst waiting for a CAMHS referral ie; does getting something wrong result in punishment without explanation and an opportunity to adjust?
It may also be an attachment difficulty which the course will help with.

Good luck.

Your post echoed my immediate thoughts on reading the OP Anja. The entire scenario sounds very odd to me

I think you and the children's parents need to review your entire child care system. A lot is being expected of you Bellesgran when the parents should be dealing with their children.
It sounds as if they need much more structure and supervision in their lives and definitely should not be outside the house/garden without adult supervision at 5 years old.

When our oldest GS was that age he was fed up in the house , he was , and still is a very sociable child , I let him run up and down outside , popping my head out to see him every few minutes .

I’m not getting involved.

PS do you live in the UK?

Five year olds playing out unsupervised? Really?

Notes sent home to grandma from school regarding bullying?

Let’s unpick this. No school I know just sends a note home. The teacher dispenses children to parents or caters at the classroom door or nearby and will ask to have a word, especially with something as serious as bullying.

Five year old do not usually play out unsupervised and in my experience a victim will run home to mum to report injuries.

Please comment on this Bellsgran

This must be so hard for you.

If the school has already highlighted the fact that these little girls are a danger to other children in their class - WHY haven't the parents addressed this?

I wonder where the mother of the 4 year old was, not just when the assault took place but later when she saw the state of her child?

You and the parents will have to face the fact that these little girls have serious behavioural problems but its certainly not your job to try and put that right.

In your place, I'd be forcing Mum and Dad to address this by simply refusing to have the twins until something constructive to help them has been done. They need to see a child psychologist - they are very unhappy little people but they cannot be allowed to be a danger to every other child they come across.

You re not getting it Bellesgran it’s not about trusting the children (although clearly you can’t) but it’s about trusting what could happen to two little girls out by themselves from the outside world
I m very surprised that the 4 year olds’ mother or father didn’t come round to see you as she sounds as if she was quite badly assaulted by your twins

Why don’t you put your coat on and go out with them
I would think one of the parents needs to go part time and look after their two children work should not come before the safety or happiness of their children

They have been trusted to go out alone by their parents but I can see that it is not working with me.

Ps, their own house is a safe area where everyone looks out for each others kids so maybe we don't have that in our area.

Isn't 'grounding' more a punishment for older children? Stopping them going out is appropriate for 10 and over when they go out with friends. How can you ground 5 year olds? As PP have said, they (and the bruised 4 year old) are very young to be going out alone.

Are these tots allowed to just play out on the street unsupervised?

That's what I was wondering.

If you are not able to cope with their behaviour, their parents need to make other arrangements for child minding.

This is something to sort out with their parents, clearly they are aware of the problem.
I would find them something to do some of the time inside, long walks also under supervision would be good.
Unless they are playing in an enclosed garden a 5 year old should not be out on their own.
I would be horrified if my grandson was out on is own.

The more I read this post the more I am confused. Why would a 4 yr old child come to someones door to say they have been bullied. Do they even know what the word means. Something strange going on. Or is it just me ?

Why are children this young playing out without adult supervision? Keep them both indoors, and in separate rooms, with books and drawing materials only. Tell them when they can be trusted to play with others ( and with each other) sensibly then they can play out or in the same room, but they have to be watched. Any bad behaviour - just repeat, repeat but increase the time outs every time. Who's in charge here, them or you?

That they bully after being told to zip up by you also makes me think they are angry at missing their mum and dad.

It does sound as if their behaviour could be a simple cry for more mum and dad time.
Kids want their parents to be there. If they feel ignored they may feel unloved and be jealous of other children who they believe have more parental attention

Gransal no they are not the same person.

Was the 4 year old's mother with her when she came to your house with bite marks and bruises?
Are these tots allowed to just play out on the street unsupervised?

Mumsnetters could be very helpful to you.

Someone posted earlier about bellesgran pm them. Someone said she was a long time poster but called her bellesnana. Is it the same person. Just seems odd.

Sorry, something not quite right about this situation. Parents should be involved without delay.

They were angry I asked them i presume BlueBelle ?

Bellesgran what has you asking them to zip their jackets up got to do with them biting and kicking a smaller child after their went out

bellesgran you posted a few days ago about zipping up kids jackets. You also pm'd me about it. Something strange if asking a child to zip up a jacket results in bullying.