a man’s internal feeling that he is a woman has no basis in material reality?

sorry here not her

The comments on the stonewall petition from lesbians are upsetting.

Sharing for comments from the lesbian community:

www.ipetitions.com/petition/dear-stonewall-please-reconsider-your-approach

E.g.

"Feb 24, 2019 I no longer consider Stonewall an organisation that would reflect my needs or safety as a lesbian. I was asked yesterday to consider a hypothetical scenario where I had sex with someone to later find out that they were trans. How would I feel if I enjoyed it? Would I not be gay anymore then?

I replied you are asking me to think about/imagine how I would feel being raped. This is not something I would consent to. In the midst of mentally having to imagine being raped to soothe someone's ego, I had to look up legislation - not for me but in the hope that other younger lesbians who follow me on twitter would perhaps feel safe that if Stonewall will not protect them, the Sexual Offences Act 2003 will. I am not legally qualified. I should not have to do this. Stonewall doesn't care.

In fact the future Stonewall would advocate for would see a trans person not have to disclose. Regardless of what the HRA1998 states, regardless of the SOA 2003 states.

I grew up in a culture where I was used to being called some kind of sexual deviant for my sexuality. I am not. I simply am attracted to women instead of men - that's it. I am not special nor unique for my lesbianism, it is just the way I was born and the way I will ultimately die. I have never wanted special treatment - only equal treatment. That was the gay rights movement I was born around, and saw happening around me. This is not equal treatment.

As it stands today, Stonewall has became a monster and I am not represented by it as a lesbian. It does not stand for me. I would prefer the L was removed from its interests."

E.g.

"Really alarmed at how homophobic Stonewall has become, the notion that a lesbian is being shamed for not including male bodied individuals who identify as female as romantic partners, is frankly frightening."

Transexuals have signed too

"Stonewall's TRA's are doing immense damage to the trust that developed over the last 15 years since the GRA came into being betwern cis-women and Transsexual women / Transwomen.

I speak for many Transsexuals when I say we are noticably different to transgender folk who dress up part time and don't have gender dysphoria driving them to Transition or die.

No way should the rights and protections of GD Transsexuals, and hand in hand, women and girls .. be watered down to give people who'd never qualify for a GRC as it stands, free and easy access.

If "Stonewall's new Trans" army, who out number Transsexuals probably 100:1 , feel they need special protections, fine, I'd agree .. but they need something different to a GRC and GRA protections.

Such a shame the orinal act was called "Transgender Recognition Act 2004" .. it should have been called the "Transsexual Recognition Act 2004".

The misnaming was political to get it through parliament, and that can't be changed .. but a new act with a new name is possible."

E.g.

"Please think about lesbians. Please consider women’s and girls safety. I want to live in a world where each individual is respected. The 12 year old girl that doesn’t feel comfortable undressing in front of a male body shouldn’t be asked to leave her toilet. It’s wrong. So wrong. Why am I writing this? Why is it needed??."

"Sadly many people won’t sign this because they are scared of reprisals. Who is being oppressed here? I’m a long time Stonewall supporter and they need to think again."

"As a gender non-conforming, previously trans-identified, lesbian woman I have been on and understand both sides of the debate. Trans people want to be respected, and I understand this, but it cannot come at the expense of lesbian and gay men's bodily autonomy.
Stonewall is putting trans people over LGB people, and putting us at risk by doing so."

Thankfully the scouts have realised that it is insane to say you offer sex segregation, when you dont.

Because segregating by gender identity is pure nonsense. Thats just a co-ed space/dorm!

People are realising that supporting self ID is the opposite of supporting diversity and inclusivity

If you are going to do away with sex segregated a services, prisons, dorms, camps, toilets... because "gender identity".. call them what they are! Mixed sex!

But for some reason male TRAs don't want mixed spaces, they just want access to womens sex segregated spaces, why?

The recently announced 'Transgender Prison Wing' seems not to be a total answer either.
Here is some of what Debbie Hayton says (Debbie is a transwoman) :

Given the choice between a transgender unit and a low security male prison close to home, I would be tempted to take the latter option, especially if a risk assessment specified a single cell and separate toilet and washing facilities. I would prefer to be assessed according to my risk profile than my transgender status.

www.crimeandjustice.org.uk/resources/are-transgender-prison-wings-answer

I don't think that prisoners get much choice about their prison location and may well be housed far from their home area, so Debbie may be being a little optimistic there.

Although Debbie is one of the 'old-school transsexuals' who totally understands women's concerns about safety, it's interesting that Debbie would be willing to reclaim a male identity if that seemed preferable.

so what is the real agenda for access to female only spaces? as with the Hampstead outdoor swimming pools, the mixed pool wasn't good enough they insisted and won access to the Womens only pool.
I am fearful not for myself now I am older, but for my four granddaughters and other young female relatives and thir friends.
I have no knowledge or guidance for these situations.
Why do TRA want to impose on women only spaces? is there anyone reading this who has an answer?

Well the truth is that TRAs dont want an india style 3rd gender with its own set of rights and services.

Nor do they want mens toilets converted to gender neutral loos.. its the female spaces under attack.

They dont want their own rights and provisions, which I would support. They want women to not have theirs!

Transgender wings in prisons are not applauded by the TRA community. Nor are single SEX prisons that safeguard trans identifying prisoners within single SEX services.

They applaud the ones that allow trans identifying males into female wings.

Which causes problems for trans identifying males, like the one quoted above, who wants their own rights and services without pretending they are real women! They identify as male transexuals/cross dressers etc. They want rights and services but they also want to be able to acknowledge that they know they are men. And want better services that include them within mens services/prisons/health services. Not in womens

In that way, self ID and TRA is not only homophobic but transphobic too!

It's claimed that their identity as real women is not sufficiently validated if they have to use mixed facilities or separate facilities.

Personally, I don't care what their motivation is if it is putting (female) people at risk.

There is no way of telling a 'real' transwoman from a nasty predatory male.

The article 'Pronouns are Rohypnol' has been removed from Medium, but should still be available here -

webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3ASPK6ZOcWUnYJ%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Fmedium.com%2F%40barrakerr%2Fpronouns-are-rohypnol-dbcd1cb9c2d9+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-b-ab&fbclid=IwAR0TK_JTNEI7PYb28qSFgKe-8FSZsum200nhP3PJVVQyfEcTfS_DIeJgt4U

Wow not sufficiently validated ....sounds like extreme attention seeking plus bragging and a desire to cause conflict.

a person can identify as a woman but they cannot be a real woman unless their biology matches so they have to accept that they are trans women.
And the rest of us do not want people with penises in female only spaces.

I still thinking what I would say to the grandkids but will probably tell them to be wary.

It's an interesting article FarNorth but based on a false ideology that says gender in language is linked with how we approach people and things. In which case those languages (and there are many) that use gender for inanimate objects approach objects differently. And actually we do do it in English- boats are always "She" I'm not sure we would feel differently about them if they were "He".

Oh please. Words matter!

Pinkquartz the difficulty is you can discuss with kids how gender steriotypes do not define the sexes, thats fine, unless they have expressed questions re maybe being trans, in which case anything other than positive affirmations can get you in hot water with authorities who are forming their guidance based on training and literature from dubious sources such as Mermaids.

youtu.be/ATNRbJW_JI8

If it's so unimportant, trisher, why are so many people making a fuss about their preferred pronouns?

Would you be happy to hear someone refer to you as he/him?

When I use my initials, as I often do, I have been referred to as "he".and had post addressed to Mr. I don't think it affected me. Of course I may be wrong. Maybe I've been a strong independent feminist all my life because of it!