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a man’s internal feeling that he is a woman has no basis in material reality?

(344 Posts)
FarNorth Sun 05-May-19 19:03:36

Maya Forstater, an internationally renowned researcher on tax avoidance, has been sacked for saying that transwomen are not women.

Her employer, the London office of the Centre for Global Development, said -
“You stated that a man’s internal feeling that he is a woman has no basis in material reality. A lot of people would find that offensive and exclusionary.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tax-expert-fired-for-saying-trans-women-aren-t-women-tpqgnm9vj?shareToken=662fc429bc2d409a9db729bd3cbc4d4c&fbclid=IwAR0F1o0RkktqyxEeA2guiz2K47W7Qtz8cLckWdf70Gd6EwC5TS3PPcmdUJc

notanan2 Sun 19-May-19 14:29:53

Okay Trisher.... unless this inclusive futurs includes lesbians, in which case google cotton ceiling before deciding what the right side of history will be

FarNorth Sun 19-May-19 14:31:58

It was varian who mentioned the child.

notanan2 Sun 19-May-19 14:32:43

I wouldn't force anybody to do or be anything they didn't want to be. But you support self ID which forces women to be redefined by men.
And what about lesbians being told to take "lady dick"? And "Trans widows" bullied and trolled because they wont call themselves lesbians?

notanan2 Sun 19-May-19 14:37:51

And women who want same sex people to do intimate exams forced to accept a transwoman to meet their same sex request?

And women prisoners forced to share enclosed space with sex offender transwomen...

....

trisher Sun 19-May-19 14:38:36

"The right side of history" often depends on the political stance you now take notanan2 There are fascist parties in Europe now who think Hitler had the right idea. I happen to think all people have the right to live their lives the way they want to providing in doing so they do not hurt or damage other people and that includes sexual activity.
Stop trying to attribute bias or discriminatory opinions to me. I really do believe in freedom of choice for everyone.

notanan2 Sun 19-May-19 14:39:41

Cool...so have you googled cotton ceiling then?

trisher Sun 19-May-19 14:42:08

And I'm tired of your repetetive rants. So I'm off this thread I leave you to your obsession and antagonism.

hugshelp Sun 19-May-19 14:47:00

Homosexuals are clear that they want sex with someone of the same sex and not to be judged for that. I doubt many people have a problem with that now.

Transexuals seem mostly to be pretty clear that they are in the wrong body and want it modifying to be the body they feel fits. I have no problem with that. Though I do think some urgent research is needed as to what is going on, as some people sadly change their mind when it is too late. And telling children they can actually change sex, without explaining what the reality is, is cruel.

Some transgender people say they are women, but have no desire to lose their 'lady penises' etc - so what exactly is it about being a woman they relate to if not biology other than a stereotype?

And sadly, some people with criminal intentions will see a huge opportunity to take advantage of the situation.

FarNorth Sun 19-May-19 15:07:42

You are right, hugshelp, especially as self-identifying one's sex is increasingly being accepted in all sorts of situations.

Starlady Sun 19-May-19 15:28:06

Like most of you, I believe that everyone has the right to live their life as they choose, so long as they're not hurting anyone else. But all this focus on transgender issues and the idea that sexual ID is "fluid," etc. is foisting the problems of a few onto the many, IMO. Most bio males are totally comfortable identifying as a male and most bio females are fully comfortable identifying as a female. Only a minority feel they are in "the wrong body." IMO, we should be sensitive to their needs, but we shouldn't approach every child as if they have this problem. That's just bound to cause confusion in children who would otherwise not be confused.

If I were a young parent, today, I would teach each of my kids they were the sex that their genitals represent b/c, most likely, they are. If one of them ever told me they felt like they were the other sex, I would be open to that. But I wouldn't present them w/ doubts to begin with. Kids depend on parents to teach them what's what in this world, not to present them w/ chaos and ask them to figure it out for themselves.

Bridgeit Sun 19-May-19 15:59:27

At last, thank you Starlady , for the post with the most common sense to date.

FarNorth Sun 19-May-19 19:24:46

Here is a very good article from today's Sunday Times :

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fleabag-star-i-wanted-to-be-a-boy-26tmzpqxs?shareToken=f142f5bbbafd38c3bdd1ad89975c80e5&wgu=270525_54264_1558289935916_5455173757&wgexpiry=1566065935&utm_source=planit&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_content=22278

Phoebe Waller-Bridge was such a tomboy as a child that she has said that if she were growing up today she would have “jumped” at the chance to become a transgender boy.

The actress and writer, 33, who scripted Fleabag and Killing Eve, which won three Baftas last week, revealed that when she was six she rebelled against her friends who loved dolls and dresses, and instead shaved off all her hair, started wearing boy’s clothing, and demanded that her parents call her “Alex”.

Waller-Bridge took pride in being able to convince people that she was a young boy: “I remember going into Gap once when I was about seven and the guy coming up to me when I was with my mum and he said, ‘So what does the young man want?’ And I was like, ‘Yeah, convinced’.”

The comments will reignite the debate about whether girls who do not conform to gender stereotypes and would once simply have been considered tomboys are instead being encouraged to believe they may be transgender.
The number of children attending London’s Tavistock centre, the country’s only NHS transgender clinic for children, has risen 25-fold to more than 2,356 since 2009.

The number of those who were assigned female at birth has ballooned and accounts for the overwhelming majority of cases.

Asked whether her boyish ways would mean that she would be considered trans if she was a child today, Waller-Bridge said: “I mean there’s the tomboy kind of thing . . . I was very fervent about it when I was younger.
“It was like I just desperately wanted to be a boy more than anything else. If it had been taken seriously by my school or something or those options had been given to me, I probably would’ve jumped at it.”

Her five-year phase of wanting to be a boy ended aged 11 when she went to boarding school and asked friends and family to start calling her Phoebe again. “I went to a boarding school for a year and a half, two years,” she told America’s NPR radio. “I wasn’t thinking about either being a boy or being a girl. But then I discovered boys in a big way. And one in particular — I remember meeting a boy and then suddenly becoming really aware that I looked sort of boyish myself and that he probably didn’t like that. And that was the kind of crossover point.”

The actress, who has handed over scriptwriting duties for the second series of Killing Eve to Emerald Fennell, has been working on livening up the script for the upcoming James Bond movie, at the request of Daniel Craig. She said she still has “the same impulse” to be a boy “all the time”.
“I still feel more comfortable in a hoodie and jeans than I ever do in little kitten heels and a flowy skirt,” she said.

Fennel Sun 19-May-19 20:20:15

Very interesting FarNorth - the OP of this thread.
Just to say that I have no connection to Emerald Fennell.

TerriBull Sun 19-May-19 20:47:05

Another article in the ST today is about a female blogger who has been banned from Twitter for using a male pronoun to refer to a Canadian transgender woman who had attracted the attention of Meghan Murphy the blogger in question by attempting to book a series of appointments with female beauticians for a Brazilian wax whilst still retaining all their male bits and pieces, not quite sure how the logistics of performing a Brazilian wax on non female intimate parts would work confused After repeatedly being refused appointments, this transwoman filed complaints with a human rights tribunal against at least seven salons accusing them of discrimination, which led Meghan Murphy to discuss the matter on Twitter. Some of these beauticians were working out of their homes and had their names published, whilst the trans woman who brought the charges against them retained her anonymity. Meanwhile whilst she has been banned for misgendering which is "hateful conduct", Ms Murphy herself has received countless violent threats, which it seems is permissible hmm

notanan2 Sun 19-May-19 21:53:00

mirandayardley.com/en/jonathan-yaniv-is-a-predator/

notanan2 Sun 19-May-19 21:55:44

mirandayardley.com/en/jonathan-yaniv-the-predator-in-his-own-words/

^ both links in response to TerriBull's post

FarNorth Sun 19-May-19 23:01:16

So much for the proclaimed risk-assessment procedures of women's shelters, which should make sure nothing like this ever happens.

In one shocking case, The Mail on Sunday discovered that a transgender ex-prisoner and convicted domestic abuser, who made chilling death threats to the mother of his child, has been allowed to come and go from a female-only refuge after he changed his name to Melissa.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6894599/When-man-called-Mark-locked-threatening-kill-mother-child.html

Does anyone believe this man really thinks he is a woman?
Does anyone believe that the women in the shelter felt comfortable to have him around, even if they did not know of his crimes?

notanan2 Sun 19-May-19 23:14:12

What was it that MP said about self ID being unproblematic in practice abroad? Guess Yaniv does count cause #NotAllTransIndentifyingMen hmm?

FarNorth Sun 19-May-19 23:14:15

Get the L Out new research LESBIANS AT GROUND ZERO revealed that lesbians are routinely being coerced into sexual relations with transwomen.
The report includes findings of a survey which shows lesbians are under huge pressure within GBT communities to accept without question that “transwoman are women.”
Lesbians who responded to the survey reported a wide variety of sexual violence by transwomen, including sexual harassment, sexual assault and rape.

www.gettheloutuk.com/blog/category/research/lesbians-at-ground-zero.html

Get The L Out is an organisation which says that there is no longer an LGBT community as the rights of lesbians are being overridden, so it is now a GBT community.

pinkquartz Mon 20-May-19 00:22:47

I am really shocked at how far the hostility to women being expressed by transwomen.
They sound like people who don't actually like women. So why do they want to identify as women?
In my younger years I spent a lot of time with gays, lesbians, transsexuals and crossdressers. No-one showed this horrible anger towards women just for liking women.

Am wondering what it is all about.

i am another woman that wanted to be a boy when I was a child. I even had a boys name for myself. But as I went into adolescence I became a not very feminine woman and then a mother and I know I am a woman and one that doesn't conform to the feminine stereotype and I do not like to see children pushed towards transitioning.
I think some of us are gender fluid as children and then when hormones kick things sort them selves out.
Also my daughter went through a similar experience and is now happily mother to five children.
Why can't we just let people be? And stop putting people into boxes.

notanan2 Mon 20-May-19 01:33:59

In my younger years I spent a lot of time with gays, lesbians, transsexuals and crossdressers. No-one showed this horrible anger towards women

They still don't. Lots of lesbians and transvestites etc are on the gender critical side of this too. Miranda Yardly who I linked just a few posts back for her blog exposing JY, is a transwomen herself. A gender critical one who opposes self ID.

Self ID and trans ideology is add odds with many members of the LGBT community!

notanan2 Mon 20-May-19 01:40:16

at odds

For a while, self ID trans activists had people convinced that they just wanted what the rest of the LGBT community campaign for, and what kind of ass would oppose that?

But the veil is slipping. Thats not what's going on.

notanan2 Mon 20-May-19 01:42:17

Its the same mentality as incels. Such rage against women and they can't just leave us be!

notanan2 Mon 20-May-19 01:49:49

I have posted link after link from gay and trans people themselves explaining the problems with self ID and trans ideology, yet the Kool aide is strong and posters still see gender critcal people like myself as anti LGBT bigots..... but I am the one reading transpeoples own words on the matter, I am reading what lesbians say about the cotton ceiling, I am reading detransitioners stories, I am reading accounts from transvestites and autogynephiles with trans kinks who anger trans activists just for admitting that they exist!

FarNorth Mon 20-May-19 01:57:15

Miranda Yardley is a transwoman but is clear about factually being male and is happy with the pronouns 'he' & 'him' etc.