"Regressive and sexist"

This has only become a problem because of the TRAs claiming that trans women are women and therefore entitled to our spaces instead of creating their own. What I will never understand is the rush by so many in power to accept their position without considering the impact on women. There was a sort of collective madness led by Maria Miller.in this country and before you knew it, any criticism of this position was transphobic, the critics were T**fs and women were supposed to but a 3 letter word in front of their sex.

Mixed would abolish preference/choice fairly- Trans or not male or female, everyone would have to share the facility-

Private rooms on the other hand would accommodate everybody-

Sorry rosecarmel but that doesn't work for public loos.
we don't have blocks of individual toilets we have a space that is then divided up.......no way is it ok to share with men.
It is not the solution.
Are you sure you would want a young female in a space with much older men. Cos it might be men not a man.
And don't forge those lovely men who like to show off their erections....do you want to be faced with that when you need to pop in for a wee?

pinkquartz, I prefer private stalls overall as an option- It's entirely possible to convert stalls into private rooms and overhaul the concept of public restrooms-

Otherwise, shared space for all-

Let's see how long men last having to share space with ladies before they start to complain ..

Too many posts to read and take in. One comment - please let's stop with all this 'natal woman' baloney! Transgender people can call themselves whatever they like, but I am a WOMAN!

It's not baloney- It's valid- That's not the issue-

Every type of woman is at risk- Trans or not- Trans laws open the door to male predators- Period- There's no shuffling that blatant fact under the rug- A man could walk into a women's restroom, because it brings him sexual pleasure to do so, and all he has to do to fulfill his sick wishes is pretend to be a woman-

And that's not baloney either, or moral panic- It's valid- And here's some numbers to back male behavior up:

Nearly 1/3 of the women in the US armed forces have been sexually assaulted and about 80% have experienced sexual harassment-

You can Google domestic violence and homicide statistics-

Many, if not most women, have had first hand experience-

I am reluctant to enter this debate but I feel i have to say something. In my long working life I interviewed thousands of people . I have met , in this way, murders, rapists, paedophiles, others who had been inside for years for other offences. They don't come with a neon sign syndicating what offences they have committed. A lot of them were very keen to tell me how innocent they were and blaming the victim , even when that victim was a child , was often their defence. I have often been gobsmacked by how devious they were.
Where is this going? I am convinced that some of them would have been only too happy to self ID as a woman in order to carry out crimes. I believe that it is naive to think that it would not happen . Maybe not often but that , to me, isn't the point. Surely one is one too many.

I have no objection to anyone wanting to transition. It is your body and you can do what you want with it. What I object to is any female being put at risk, or having her rights eroded by a small minority. If a male decides to become a trans female then their experiences growing up weren't mine and for many females sexual harassment/assault are all too familiar features of life. Now I am older I don't want to have to be subjected to rubbish behaviours , and I am grateful to others for having the courage to stand up for me in public.

Lyndi I use the word natal when I think it’s required for clarity in the context of my post. What I will never use as a descriptor is c*s.

retrofitting stalls into private rooms with actual walls and actual doors

Even that can be a problem because of the possibility for a tiny secret camera to be put in.
This is not far fetched fantasy - it does happen.
It's much less likely to happen in facilities which are designated single-sex, as men know they may be challenged if they go in there.

Also FN I can’t be the only one who sometimes wants to come out of the cubicle to have a more distant look at the garment, or walk in it, or ask my ( female) friend what she thinks of it.

I think I’m losing the will to live! We’ve been round and round with this discussion and I no longer know what I think or what’s best.

I would gladly forfeit women's shared space bathrooms in exchange for safer, private rooms for everyone- The benefits of safe space outweigh preference-

Technology advances rapidly- If someone wants to record people going to the bathroom they could in any given public restroom- Same sex restrooms dont prevent it or make it less prevalent-

Maddyone, I suspect that's what trans rights activists want - for everyone to give up and let them do what they want.

Trans rights activists does not mean all trans people, of course. It means the people who are making a lot of noise and redefining the meanings of words so that no-one can be sure what's going on.

What's going on has been going on for more than one thousand years: women being treated as less- Predominantly by men but also by other females with agendas-

Yes FarNorth, you’re most likely right. I thought I knew what I thought about this, but I feel more confused than ever about it all now. I actually don’t know what I think, which is extremely unusual for me

maddyone
ok if you are confused think of your grandchildren and great grandchildren who might be female.
Imagine them saying in the future why didn't someone stop the law being changed? us females no longer have safe toilets and changing rooms?

Why would you want other women to be vulnerable? This has to be sorted out in a way that does not deprive women of feeling safe in a loo or a changing room.
There are ways of allowing Tra women access....but it isn't even for a lot of people and once the law is altered all the millions of females in this UK will be affected.

I am sure there is a way to make it safer for Tra women but people have pointed out why is it always on women to accommodate?
why us?
And we don't want to take anything away and we don't want some places of safety taken away from us.

loislovesstewie make a good point imo, about the way in which sex offenders lie, blame others, including small children. thats my worry about the move to allow men ID as women into women only space.
I've no issue with trans women, with adults who aren't sure about their sexuality, whether they want to live as a man or a woman. We all have our struggles and I feel so lucky that the trans issue isn't one I have had to struggle with myself. Not so one of my grandchildren.
Women only spaces need protecting. I wonder if prisons should have a trans wing? Men ID as women in women's prisons hasn't been problem free. I expect the same would go for domestic abuse refuges.