Load grenade and run!

Yes I understand Bluebell sadly we've experienced suicide in our family this is different though IMO. Family and friends would know that their loved one's wish was for euthanasia.

I feel that sadly there is no way that this can be legislated for to everyone's satisfaction, as just like every other system designed to help people, there are always those who abuse this. However, I do feel that these people are probably in the minority and that the only humane way to legislate is to allow voluntary euthanasia under tight conditions; it seems altogether immoral that so many people die in agony for the sake of a (hopefully) relatively minute number of instances where this might be abused. Personally, I would be prepared to take that chance and vote in favour.

Mum is now 101 and up to about 6 months ago was still up but struggling. She is now bed ridden and incontinent. When it first happened she cried all the time wishing to be dead. As the months have gone on she has gradually lost her mental faculty and weirdly has got happier with each step down.

She would I am sure have taken a pill if it had been offered. Am I glad she didn’t take it? No, because she never ever wanted to get to the stage she is at. It is incredibly sad and undignified and confusing for her.

I would never inflict this on anyone.

EllanVannin yes, that must have been wretched for all of you.
I believe that this does happen and we were thankful that a senior nurse may have helped someone close to us too.

The upside though is that she has always been a really picky eater, but now I can cook her stuff and she merrily eats things she has never eaten in her life. So it has its upside.

Modern medicine is wonderful but perhaps it has its downside when people are kept alive beyond a good quality of life.

I don't know what the answer is.

Hetty that must of been awful. I don’t know why things are so different, perhaps it depends on the doctors or the hospital but when my terminally ill DiL collapsed and was rushed to hospital my son was told that she may die and they wouldn’t attempt resuscitation. She thankfully survived and is here still. My poor son was in a terrible state expecting the worst. I have every sympathy with doctors they must feel as if they can’t do right for wrong.
For myself after seeing my poor MiL suffer so much I would not want to be resuscitated to spend two more years in a living hell. I hope when my time comes I’ve got a sympathetic doctor.

Well I think about one person a week from UK travels to dignatas so whatever our personal views, there is a demographic that wants this!

Artdecogran, I totally agree with you and am so so sorry you had to experience the awful trauma of the slow and painful death of loved ones.

I live in Switzerland (me Swiss-British, and OH British-Swiss) in retirement- and I am so grateful that if the day game, I would have the choice of my own ending, with help and support, in my own home.

''Some say that if the law were changed it could lead to unscrupulous relatives bumping grandma off to get their inheritance quicker.''

this accusation is just nonsense. The Laws must be clear, and then there is NO slippery slope. In Switzerland, the person asking for assistance will be interviewed by person trained for the purpose, on their own, to avoid any outside interference. The person has to be 100% clear that there is NO-ONE putting pressure on them, in anyway whatsoever, and no hesitation of any kind- and that they are 100% compos mentis.
Then a day is set- and on the day, the person is again interviewed, on their own, to be 100% sure of the above. Then, if all is 100% clear - the potion is given, or the drip fitted. The person has to take and swallow the potion themselves, or trigger the drip. It is all filmed to ensure it is the case. When the person is dead, in seconds- the death is confirmed, the tape stopped, and the police called and given the tape to view, if wished. There is NO scope for error, NO scope at all from outside interference- and proof that having this guarantee of being able to escape at any time when it all gets too much - people often choose to live much longer- and often to not ask for help at all in the end.

If you have to be fit enough to travel abroad- you are under huge pressure to go far too early when you still have some quality time with loved ones still ahead. I am a member of 'Dignity in Dying' which is fighting to achieve the same rights for British people.

My Dad died 7 years ago he was in pain a driver to administer morphine was inserted and he was unconscious but when he became restless the nurse and doctor increased the morphine and told me my Dad would pass without pain, he did my mum had a massive heart attack the same year the same thing happened a driver was put in and within 12 hours she had passed I believe this is a kind way of dealing with painful death

If you have signed paperwork you can request no anti biotics no resuscitation etc etc and the doctor or nurses in attendance will make the patient comfortable and out of pain to pass away without any intervention to safe the life

That all sounds so civilised jura.

However, I suppose the fault in that system is if someone is suffering from some kind of dementia and unable to give their consent with any certainty. I have spent time with a friend with dementia this week and so far she is lucid but forgetful. We then met another friend whose DH has dementia, his personality is changing suddenly and he is becoming rather aggressive and suspicious.
Another relative has this and has no quality of life but would probably agree happily to anything depending on who suggested it.

So very sad and frightening.

BlueBell - what a terrible decision for a doctor and nurse, or any loved one to have to make - with the fear of being prosecuted if discovered. I still believe it's time this whole issue was decided by Referendum. Yes, we're wary of what the outcome could be, but at least it's not sweeping a rather unsavory subject under the carpet and pretending it's all okay as it is.

We do have assisted suicide here in Canada. Unfortunately old age is not considered eligible for 'intolerable suffering due to an grievous and incurable medical condition'. But I am so glad that it is legal. I allows some dignity to those suffering at

My dear MIL who will be turning 90 shortly has strict 'do not resuscitate' form filled out; it is posted in her room, and all her relatives are aware. She is the last of her siblings and feeling tired now, living in assisted living, but struggling with day to day movement. I think she has decided when she cannot walk anymore she will stop taking any of her medications and hopefully nature will take its course relatively quickly.

I have heard of elderly that have decided to fast in order to end life. I do understand not wanting to be a burden on family. Not an easy decision to make, and of course by that time most are very restricted physically so options are limited.

My Dad was sent home from hospital to die with palliative care from the NHS. Carers came twice a day, district nurses every day and they were responsible for his pain relief via a syringe driver. They spent ages working out and recording the right dose of morphine to keep him comfortable. They were also there like a shot if you called because he was uncomfortable. It took nearly two weeks but he slipped away very peacefully. A good death, which is sadly not always the case.

In answer to your first question I think everyone has the right to do away with themselves. From what I understand the problem is when they need someone else to assist them?

Very grey area because what does it leave it open to? Relatives being fed up? Hospital beds needed? Does the individual actually want to go? etc etc.

They used to have the Liverpool Pathway for terminally ill patients which was condemned but personally I thought it was perfect. (My uncle was treated with this) In effect, they increased the amount of morphine gradually until the patient died peacefully. Many agreed with it but many more opposed it.

My life long friend died in April this year, terminal illness and boy did she suffer and was in pain but...she didn't want to die so no way did she want to be put to sleep and ..she wasn't. I know the rest of us all felt it would be kinder, as watching her was truly heartbreaking but we knew she didn't want that so what would happen if it had become normal practice?

I for one, would not advocate relatives/doctors being able to make decisions. Perhaps, if people write their wishes beforehand? Anyone else then no, as I say...dangerous ground. Where does it end? Road casualties, given no hope ..who later astound the medical profession by surviving?

Tedber one may have the right but does one have the means?
One that is as ‘pleasant’ and ‘easy’ as possible. One that doesn’t involve stomach pumping in A&E or your loved one finding you hanging or any of the many other really difficult and horrible exits.

Callistemon ''However, I suppose the fault in that system is if someone is suffering from some kind of dementia and unable to give their consent with any certainty.''

yes, this is the last battle- and it will be very difficult, and perhaps not possible, to resolve- as the whole system is based on being of sound mind and able to make clear decisions in full knowledge of the consequences. I have two friends who were adamant that they would not want to suffer the indignities and horror of Alzheimers, when they were well. But then the diseases struck and they left it too late. It does mean, in this case, that a person has to make a decision quickly and not to long after the diagnosis- which is a huge shame, as it is possible to have a good quality of life with Alzheimers. We have talked about this as a couple, and with our DDs - and we both agree, and they have come to agree to- that we would ask for assistance to die in the early stages of the disease, lest it would be too late, We've seen the results- and both of us do NOT want this.

But at least we are light years ahead in all other cases- be it a degenerative disease or end stage cancer, or very old age and multiple health problems making normal life a misery. Fingers crossed. Knowing that the choice would be ours- is a massive comfort.

BTW our membership cost about £30 a year- no other costs involved if ever ...

Dementia is strange.
I know some sufferers and some could be suspicious, hostile and think that their loved ones are wanting to get rid of them and get their hands on their cash, others will happily agree to anything.

Which is why the lines have been drawn re dementia and Alzheimers in Switzerland.

The aim is to now find a safe way to make advance directives- when fully compos mentis, and when still young and healthy(ish) ... in writing, with NOK and GP - stating clearly that this is one's real and determined wish- should the disease strike- despite some mildsigns of vagueness. It is hugely difficult, and I don't think this will be in place for many years to come. But that is the aim.

BTW- this has been discussed on several threads previously.

One more important point- in Switzerland- the treating medical team is in no way involved in the help, support and 'deed' on the day or before. So there is no cross over or any conflict of 'interest'. Doctors, nurses, etc, will look after the patient - and another team will assist in the case of a request for assisted death. Two totally seperate teams.

When my mother was very old, with dementia, and never at all happy or enjoying life at all, her care home staff and I agreed that with the exception of anything like a 2nd broken hip, there should be no hospital - in any case a terrible place for anyone with dementia - she should have palliative care only.

In the end her decline was pretty quick, all over in 36 hours and thank goodness there was never any question of hospital or trying to keep her going a bit longer.
Quite frankly I think it's verging on cruelty to 'strive to keep alive' anyone like that.

But the fact is, some relatives do want absolutely everything done to keep someone going, no matter how pitiful a state they're in. So I think it can be very hard for medics to suggest, however kindly, that allowing Nature to take its course and palliative care might be the kindest thing, since some people do get dreadfully upset or angry.

For myself - and dh has done the same - I have added a section to my Health and Welfare Power of Attorney, to state that in the event of my developing dementia, or any other condition where I am unable both to care for myself and speak (with full mental capacity) for myself, then I do not want any life-prolonging medication or interventions. I want palliative care only.

I had high hopes that our Baby Boomer Generation would speahead a campaign for the right to die in peace and comfort - with all the usual safeguards in place of course.

Because there are so many of us our voices should be heard. I think I was too optimistic.

Like many posters here, I have seen quite unnecessary cruelty and torture of those who are terminally ill and in pain and who least deserve this tteatment from their inhumane fellow-man.

You don't need to go to Swizerland.
I had a dear friend with a terminal illness, who took a bus South to an area where he was unknown and walked up into the snow.
He settled himself down off the beaten path, with a bottle of his favourite malt whisky and the cold of the night did the rest. He told no one. No one looked for him, 300 miles away from home. No one there saw anything other than the usual hiker with a pack on his back. Mission accomplished.

I have everything in place to take those final steps for myself, should I need to, including notices (if I do it at home) to tell my son to go no further into the house but ring the police.
Otherwise he could be prosecuted for aiding and abetting.

1) Make a Living Will specifying your wishes in illness; lodge it with your surgery; confirm from time to time that they still have it; Compassion in Dying has a useful form that is as water-tight as it can be in the circumstances.

2) Link your Health and Well-Being Power of Attorney specifically to that Living Will

3) Join Dignity in Dying and support it and/or campaign, campaign, campaign

4) Go to Dignitas if you can

5) Do what you can to have a fall-back DIY method

!BradfkrdLass* your friend still had all his faculties and was able to walk.
Not everyone is that "lucky".