Robbie Williams and surrogacy

Annie, my daughter miscarried her first pregnancy on Christmas Day, and her second miscarriage was on Mother’s Day. She became pregnant with her first naturally, and then could never get pregnant without IVF again. She then miscarried that pregnancy, twins, on Mother’s Day. That was when we decided to go for treatment in London at ARGC, one of the best clinics, and we have had this wonderful gift of three grandchildren. But I’d like someone to answer who’s been critical, did we buy our daughter her family? And is that wrong?

maddy I am so sorry , it’s agony isn’t it ? How wonderful your daughter did have her longed for children.

Anniebach
Yes you are so right. That's what I was saying really I've never been in that position so my thinking is to be challenged. Never been hungry enough to steal a loaf of bread either but I would if I was. Dont think I could ever use another woman to carry a baby for me though but who knows ????

Suzie,
Just spotted your answer to my question, thank you. At times I admit that I felt upset for all the families that can’t afford IVF, let alone go to one of the best clinics in London. But I couldn’t watch my darling girl in such distress when we had the ability to try to stop it. We’d just retired and were able to spend 5/6 days a week running up and down to London with her for the daily blood tests etc. It might not have worked, but for us it did.

Adoption IVF and surrogacy are three completely different issues with their own ethical dilemmas and challenges.

So back to the original theme of the posting then Robbie Williams Ayda and Surrogacy

May7 my younger daughter discussed all the options with the clinic, they decided against surrogacy, they feared the surrogate mother choosing to keep the baby , and my daughter longed to experience that first movement in her womb, giving birth, she thought carefully how she may feel
when the baby was born, there is so much emotional pain
in infertility.

Yes Annie, it was a very happy ending, but as you she know, she subsequently suffered Post Natal Depression, but that’s another thread. She is very well now thank goodness. I do wonder if all the hormones and upset over infertility cause the PND.
Suzie, yes three issues all to do with infertility. We have experience of two of them in our family. That’s why I can’t condemn surrogacy outright, although we didn’t have experience of that. Would people feel the same about surrogacy if it wasn’t a super rich pop star, but an ordinary family?

I am adopted, I was three months old when my mum and dad adopted me. I was told when I was 11 years old.

I had a wonderful happy childhood and two wonderful parents. Damaged - certainly not. I was the only child so felt lonely on occasions but that is all. I had a fully and busy childhood with holidays, ponies, dance lessons and a good education.

Unless you have been adopted, you cannot possibly know.

If the Kim Kardashian's of this world were being surrogates then I might be convinced it wasnt the exploitation of women. It's not a niche view to be opposed to surrogacy, it is illegal in a number if European countries.

With regard to surrogacy, I don't really know, I haven't given it a lot of thought. There will be a raft of reasons why this method is used and I don't feel qualified enough or know enough to give an opinion.

Annie, my daughter rejected both surrogacy and adoption as a solution. I understand why your daughter and mine felt that way.
We love our son’s adopted child just as much as our daughter’s IVF children.

Anniebach
Sorry Annie I was really only commenting on surrogacy. I am a firm believer in IVF. I was a student nurse when Louise Brown was born and I remember the midwives shaking their heads and saying "it's just the tip of the iceberg"
I thought and still do think it's a wonderful practise but also appreciate the pain and heartache that comes with it
GLAD it worked out well for your daughter and family.. please dont think I was criticising IVF. Its surrogacy that I think is morally wrong.
Take a look at Suziewoozies link it is food for thought

There is absolutely nothing wrong with surrogacy, adoption, or ivf what is wrong is a rich couple who already have a natural family wanting more when God or nature or whatever you believe in is saying no it’s not happening so then because they have this sense of greed or entitlement they expect someone else to do it for them not once but twice
If they had adopted two more children I would have had a lot more respect for them
Although he’s still an absolute axxx

Yes maddy I would still condemn it because it’s using another woman’s body.

Annie, RW they already had children which isn't the same as people who have none but want a child to complete their family. I make no apologies for using the word entitlement and agree totally with Greymar about the rich and their sense of entitlement.

Bluebelle have you read my link ? Also there is a lot wrong with some IVF and adoption practices. There’s no way there can be a blanket unfettered acceptance of any of these practices as they are all open to exploration and to women and babies being treated wrongly in various ways. For example, in Italy women in their 50s/60s through IVF giving birth to multiple babies. No problems? The trade in poor women used to provide babies for adoption - no problems? It can’t just be a market place in women and babies. In the UK we can be justly proud of our regulation of IVF and other fertility issues but that doesn’t mean whatever anybody else does is OK

May7 I so agree with you on IVF, sadly it didn’t work for my
daughter who is relieved she is heading into the menopause !

Agree BlueBell

My thoughts always turn to the 'unwanted' in our society when hearing the word surrogate. But that is me and my choice were I unable to conceive.

I should have put something up about the struggles some have had with miscarriage, ivf etc., I just saw the comment from Bibbity about adoption and felt I had to say something.

For those who have experienced the struggle of miscarriage, ivf etc, with their daughters, Annie Maddyone it is heartbreaking to read .

Anniebach
Sorry it didnt work out the way your daughter wanted it to. I got you mixed up with maddyones post.
I must read posts more carefully

Some people think RW is charismatic but that's another thread.

I'm with you Bluebell and co
RW is a complete axxx

lavender zen , thanks for your post about your own adoption experience. To make a statement such as "all adoption is damaging' is to dismiss the many successful and happy outcomes.
Of course, wouldn't life be wonderful if all children were born to parents who could at least give them 'good enough' parenting but that's far from true.

If RW and his wife had quietly and respectfully fostered or adopted I suppose I would have some misgivings. Just as we don't know the RF, I don't know RW or his wife. I think years ago he was talented and creative. Any time I have seen minutes of him lately , he seems lewd and vulgar. How any woman can think it's OK to have him describe anal sex with her , on a national chat show is beyond me.

There is very litte connection between a family who have 2 children and greedily pay for 2 more and people's personal experiences of adoption, IVF and miscarriage.

RW is like so many, I see/I want/I get.

Thank you lavenderzen, that’s such a kind comment.
BlueBelle and Suziewoozie raise good points in my opinion. Thankfully infertility issues are regulated by law in the UK. Women in their 60s aren’t treated with IVF. Children aren’t sold to be adopted. Surrogacy is very regulated. People cannot buy babies. I find myself unable to condemn surrogacy outright because of the infertility issues, but I do wonder if poor women are being, or could be exploited, as Suzie says. But then again, the clinic in London made my daughter and her husband into a family, but the clinic is extremely successful and has made the doctor who founded it very rich. Then again, he is passionate about helping infertile couples. There are lots of issues, I think we’ve probably got it about right in the UK.