Gransnet forums


the slow painful death of the labour party

(27 Posts)
petunia Wed 19-Feb-20 09:39:52

Dawn Butlers comment yesterday on GMB that babies are born without biological sex is just the latest nail in the coffin of credibility in the labour party today. The potential leaders are tying themselves in knots over the trans issue in an effort to be inclusive and signing pledges in support of trans individuals. Potential risks to biological females are dismissed as transphobic. Party members are risking expulsion if they dare to breathe a word about biological reality. With all the issues that face the labour party today, why are they choosing trans rights as their main focus.
Where are all the rational labour party members who are going to save the party from this dreadful decline?

Galaxy Wed 19-Feb-20 09:46:00

Its utterly tragic, I can hardly watch it. This issue swept through the green party and the lib dems, and now labour.

GrannyGravy13 Wed 19-Feb-20 09:50:26

The country needs a strong opposition, unfortunately I cannot see one on the horizon.

Anniebach Wed 19-Feb-20 10:00:06

The rational Labour Party members will leave or be expelled

MaizieD Wed 19-Feb-20 10:02:37

Where are all the rational labour party members who are going to save the party from this dreadful decline?

I think they're probably waiting out there for the leadership poll to open on Friday so they can vote for the candidate who hasn't signed up to this madness...

It's essentially a minority issue and I don't think that it's going to resonate much with the greater part of the 'ordinary' members. I think that most people are inherently socially conservative (small 'c') and they're more likely to reject than accept it.

petunia Wed 19-Feb-20 10:07:11

but who are the potential leaders who havent swallowed this trans ideology maizie? and how will they fight off the hoards of followers and supporters.

Anniebach Wed 19-Feb-20 10:15:18

Will the new leader be allowed to be a leader, I think not.

lavenderzen Wed 19-Feb-20 10:20:05

This is a real tragedy for the party.

Yehbutnobut Wed 19-Feb-20 10:25:12

Perhaps the LP needs a Boris? Surely if they dug deep enough they could have found a lying, lazy and repulsive layabout to equal him.

janeainsworth Wed 19-Feb-20 10:31:51

It's essentially a minority issue and I don't think that it's going to resonate much with the greater part of the 'ordinary' members

Maizie Trans rights may be a minority issue, but bullying isn't.
People to whom it doesn't matter whether people can self-id or not, and are open-minded about gender issues, may still care that natal women are being accused of hate crime and threatened with expulsion simply for wanting women's rights protected.

Jane10 Wed 19-Feb-20 10:33:03

I wish they could find somebody suitable to form an effective opposition and not be distracted by the latest minority obsession to come along.

Anniebach Wed 19-Feb-20 10:33:19

The Labour Party has MP’s who would be strong leaders if
the party wasn’t run by those in the shadows.

There is already talk about Corbyn being on the shadow front
bench and McDonald isn’t going to return to the back benches .

paddyanne Wed 19-Feb-20 10:35:14

They're not aiming their comments at our age group .its young votes they want .Most young people have no issues with transgender/LGBTQ etc etc.Its definately the over 40's that seem to find it hard to come to terms with .
Having said tha t there are a lot of older voters around so maybe they could keep their views under wraps until they get into power.....

Jane10 Wed 19-Feb-20 10:37:23

Its not that its a hard problem to come to terms with, its that its a relatively small one compared all the other social issues that need to be addressed.

POGS Wed 19-Feb-20 11:15:10

The signing of the Labour Campaign For Trans Rights is being widely discussed on the ' Sensible Discussion on the Labour Leadership Thread.' if anybody is interested.

I remain of the opinion that for Lisa Nandy, Rebecca Long Bailey, Dawn Butler and Richard Burgon to sign the 12 point plan which gives rise for Labour Members to be ' EXPELLED ' from the Labour Party for holding a different opinion to them is not doing Labour any favours.

It is a form of ' No Platforming ' their members, debate, discussion out.

I think the feminists in the Labour Party must be wondering where the hell they sit with the thought of talk of ' Expulsions' and the strong language of ' hate ' the candidates are happy to attach to those who disagree with them.

janeainsworth Wed 19-Feb-20 11:30:31

Yes Pogs Jess Phillips springs to mind!

Smileless2012 Wed 19-Feb-20 12:01:56

My dear friend in her early 60's teaches English at a secondary school and was telling me about a debate one of her classes had on this very subject. The students were 15.

She said the vast majority said they were finding it increasingly difficult to get their heads around the additional letters to LGBT in order to be totally inclusive of all variations (don't know how else to put it). I think there are 10 in all.

IMO it's becoming a political and social mine field.

GagaJo Wed 19-Feb-20 12:17:27

POGS, as a feminist member of the LP (OK, NOT a politician but I AM a member) AND an older woman, I can tell you I am completely OK with trans rights.

And Smileless2012, as a teacher who until Xmas worked in the UK, most students are fine with trans issues. NO they don't necessarily know the breakdown of LGBTQ (Lesbian, Gay, Bi, Trans, Queer) but they aren't the homophobic bigots that were around when I was at school, either. They are very accepting of non binary individuals. Much more change has happened than I expected since I left school myself.

If NOT being a bigot is a minefield, imagine how explosive being a non binary individual is when you're surrounded by those who don't want to let you have the freedom to be who you are.

TerriBull Wed 19-Feb-20 12:26:15

The Labour Party has been going down this road for quite a while now, can't remember exactly when "Lily Madigan" (natal male) was appointed as a Women's Officer whilst still a teen, having lived most of her life as a boy just wonder how she could appreciate what it is to be a woman and all the ramifications that go with that. The planet sized brain that is Dawn Butler has told world that when babies are born they don't have a biological sex. She also reliably informs us that 90% of giraffes are gay, wonder if the average Giraffe knows that when he/she or whatever it identifies as, is in the throes of procreation. I do so hope baby Giraffes don't have an assigned gender at birth, although it seems from some of these "zoo" programmes they do, give them what I perceive to be overtly masculine or feminine names shock clearly a re-education programme is needed amongst the staff at such places, maybe even a Giraffe Officer. From another species of course, say a Zebra or a Wilder Beast. # Species Inclusiveness, Animals Working Together to Achieve A Disney Utopia or summit like that!

As others have stated

TerriBull Wed 19-Feb-20 12:27:03

As others have stated how did that get there confused

GillT57 Wed 19-Feb-20 12:40:57

This is all part of the collective political madness that seems to have gripped this country. Can I just make clear that I have no issues with anyone who announces they are LGBTQ+ or whatever else, and as Gagajo said, it is admirable that these things are being discussed, but, and it is a big but......we are descending into an Alice in Wonderland upside down world here, with all the nastiness of that bigoted boy who had to resign as a SPAD, Dominic Cummings, Johnson getting more irrational and daft by the day, and what we need is a few grown ups, a decent opposition to call a halt to some of the weirdness coming out of the Tory party. Effective government is dependant upon effective opposition and at present, we have neither. the Momentum people are just as scary as the ERG, and while they run the LP, fail to admit that Corbyn was the wrong person, that they got their last manifesto seriously wrong and continue headlong with their self destruction, we s a country will be poorer for it, both fiscally and morally.

Davidhs Wed 19-Feb-20 13:05:20

This does not affect me as I have no public profile I can look on alternative lifestyles however I want and I have no objection to biological females using male facilities. I do however understand women objecting to males that have self identified as female using female facilities, it’s up to you all to unite and get it stopped or nothing will be done.

In my opinion children should not be permitted to change sex, any allegations of bullying is spurious, bullying takes place because you’re different which may be for many reasons.

Adults should only be recognized as trans after they have had any physical changes done, until then they remain their birth gender

JenniferEccles Wed 19-Feb-20 13:23:26

I think the Labour party is doomed to extinction unless it can elect a leader who is in tune with the views of a large sector of the country.

I am a Tory supporter but I am aware that any government in power needs a strong viable opposition to keep it on its toes.

Labour at present is a long way from that, and I don’t see any of the leadership candidates as the person to turn things around.

pinkquartz Wed 19-Feb-20 13:42:16

Being open and accepting of Trans people is fine with me, and indeed why not?
It doesn't bother me in the slightest.
I can go on to say that I like people who are a bit different, and more individual.

It is the erosion of female only spaces that is wrong.
I don't want my granddaughters to share changing rooms with boys.
And if there is no female only space then that is what will happen.

Plus of course A Woman's Refuge should be for just women and I don't think trans woman are a danger to women. It is the men who will abuse the self ID that are the potential problem and it has already happened.

I don't think I could vote for a Labour Party straight out of 1984 with their talk of Hate Speech being anyone who thinks differently.
Freedom of Speech is what we aim for not dictatorship.

We need a decent opposition and have not had one for many years. I hope soemthing good happens in the Labour Party soon but there is no sign of it with the line of women coming out with such statements.

MaizieD Wed 19-Feb-20 14:13:22

Keir Starmer hasn't signed up.