Gransnet forums


will OAP's loosing out??

(118 Posts)
travelsafar Sat 23-May-20 12:37:08

Will we loose our heating allowances, bus passes, tv licences health related benefits i.e. free dental and optical benefits if on pension credit, to help towards repaying for the Covid 19 out break. Will our state pension be frozen at today's amount for a few years. Will this be the way that OAP's help in what will be a national crisis economically.

Oldbutstilluseful Sat 23-May-20 12:44:22

I’ve been thinking the same travelsafar. I’m concerned about the hearing allowance though. The thought that anyone, let alone a senior citizen, having to choose between heating and eating is just awful.

Oldbutstilluseful Sat 23-May-20 12:45:04

Sorry, should of course be “heating”.

EllanVannin Sat 23-May-20 12:55:46

I've said it before, if we lose the £200 heating payment along with the £10------so what ? If it's going to help the economy in some small way so be it.

As for " freezing " the pension, that doesn't bother me either when we're at least receiving something regularly which is/will be more than the millions of others who've lost businesses, jobs, homes, etc.

TBH, I'm not particularly bothered so long as I can pay my way as with very many pensioners who can do also.

It's not as if we're in the doldrums is it ? All pensioners receive a state pension of sorts as well as a second one through their work.

As for my bus pass which is up for renewal in October, that can wait as well. I'm in no hurry.

12Michael Sat 23-May-20 13:14:58

TV Licence is August for over 75`s , everything else will have to wait until the autumn statement .
Like was quoted on a NEWS item yesterday , looking a similarity with 2nd world war and borrowing the respective government did then was paid back over 30 plus yeas .
I think the Governments e-petitions webpage would get allot petitions created on it if the OAP situ changed, plus organisations like AGE UK and others which are linked with age related topics would focus and argue against decisions effecting us.

Charleygirl5 Sat 23-May-20 13:26:22

EllanVannin- you have stated before that you are receiving a large pension from work and I personally do not like your attitude of "I am alright Jack" because there are many who are only living on state pensions and many more who have had to wait for the extra years before their state pension kicked in to supplement a small work one.

Because of the present situation, those with savings also cannot rely on the extra help from the interest paid monthly.

I agree, I also think we will be hit hard financially after the pandemic but there are many who have to be helped financially.

Franbern Sat 23-May-20 13:34:00

EllenV - not ALL pensioners receive a work pension as well as their state one. Indeed, manyj women, who were stay at home Mums or Carers most definitely do not.

I was one of those, looked after my children, cared for my husband with MS, fosterered babies for local authorities. So, my state pension is only brought up to miniumum by Pension Credit. No other money available.

The Bus Pass gives me freedom to get about - the heating allowance, means that I do not have to much worry about keeping my flat warm. Although I do not agree with these 'extras' - think that we should have a proper amount pension for all - and bring us in line with other European countries.

But yes, I do fear that pensioners, and NHS staff, Fire fighters, police, Care workers, bus and train operatives will be very much amongst those who will be suffering from the economic effects of this virus for decades to come.

Not the millionaires, of course, they will be secure and safe and, probably richer than ever. Indeed, did not James Rees Mogg actually comment on how much money this panademic could make him and others like him.

tanith Sat 23-May-20 13:35:49

There are probably more people living on just a state pension than not EllenVannin please don’t assume that everyone has a second pension and could easily afford to give up the heating allowance etc for many they are a lifeline. I’m sure we’re all going to pay for this pandemic for many many years to come.

rascal Sat 23-May-20 13:53:41

What about the huge payment the government pays to the royal family to keep them in the custom they are used to? This is not necessary at all! confused

Fernbergien Sat 23-May-20 14:00:30

True. Glad you brought that up Rascal.

EllanVannin Sat 23-May-20 14:46:40

How did we manage before the heating allowance ? It was already reduced by £50 ? I didn't see anyone scratching around then, or indeed complaining.

It's certainly not an " I'm alright Jack " attitude Charleygirl5 as I like many others pay tax too. Tax that I'd already paid when working for the same money I'm now being taxed on----superannuation. I've also been widowed since 1994 so have had no backup nor the extra pension that those retiring later will get.

If it wasn't for my work pension I'd have been able to claim for all kinds of extras, like rent/rates and all the rest.

My " attitude " is that at least we get something and it wouldn't bother me to forego heating and the £10 to give others less fortunate, a chance. I don't have a huge asset like a house at the back of me, as I sold it 20 years ago to help the families get on the housing ladder.

Many on this forum would be willing to lose these allowances as they've all said so in the past when it was discussed, most having husbands/partners.

One thing is for sure and that's the next generation won't be as well-off as we've been !! Think about your GC and GGC.

dragonfly46 Sat 23-May-20 14:55:57

I think a lot of these amounts should be means tested. I do not need a free bus pass, fuel allowance etc but I do think those who do should have it. After all they have paid for it over the years.
I also think that high earners should be taxed more - this is not popular with the electorate but is a fair way of doing things.
I would be happy to pay more tax if I felt it was going to help the NHS for example.

EllanVannin Sat 23-May-20 14:59:08

I'm with you there Dragonfly.

MaggieTulliver Sat 23-May-20 15:07:07

I’m far more worried about my daughter’s generation (she’s 20) who’ve had the best years of their lives at uni snatched away from them and face an uncertain future re: jobs. I’m nearing pension age BTW. Agree with Dragonfly and Ellen.

kittylester Sat 23-May-20 15:14:40

I say that every time the topic comes up dragonfly46. Its quite silly tgat it should be across the board and should be quite easy to 'means test' in this age of computerised everything.

Callistemon Sat 23-May-20 15:16:30

I think they will need to put up the rate of income tax.

If they need to borrow more money, perhaps a good way will be to increase the amount of money people can put into Government bonds, especially premium bonds. The interest rate is low too.

Please, rascal, no. The last thing we need now with Brexit, the virus and its aftermath is a referendum on the monarchy versus republicanism with all the uncertainty and extra expense that would entail.

After this is over we need to get back on to an even keel and stability is what we will need.

Loislovesstewie Sat 23-May-20 15:27:29

Superannuation payments were actually tax deductible , so the money we saved for pensions was actually a perk of the job and recognized by the government of the day as being a good thing. Of course we paid tax on income and still pay tax now if we have more income than the tax threshold, that is just the way it is . Neither do I begrudge people who have to claim for help with council tax or rent; I think it would be far better to pay pensions that meant the recipient had enough to live on without having to claim .
And yes I do have a local government pension as I stated on another thread and think myself very lucky to have it .

rascal Sat 23-May-20 15:29:43

Fernbergien. smile

Doodledog Sat 23-May-20 15:45:04

I agree with taxation on earnings, but totally disapprove of means testing.

I think that when people have earned money and paid tax on it (and I would increase the rate at which earnings are taxed), then it should be up to the individual how to spend or save it, without penalty. It infuriates me that people of moderate means are penalised if they want to save for something, as they can lose some of their savings in lost allowances because of means testing, and their dreams keep moving out of their reach.

Why should deciding to save their own money count against some when others are able to claim because they have spent their money instead of saving it? The unfairness of some earning so much more than others is a bit of a separate argument, but in any case, could be dealt with by fairer taxation at source.

As ever, the rich don't have to worry, as they can afford things without the need to claim, and the poor will qualify anyway.

Pensions should (IMO) go to everyone who has contributed NI, and a means-tested allowance go to those who have chosen not to work. Those who were unable to work (eg because of looking after a sick partner, or because of their own illness, or unemployment etc) should get NI credits, but those who didn't work because their partner could afford to keep them should not.

These are the only circumstances in which I approve of means-testing, because as it stands, if you can't afford not to work you are (through your NI contributions) subsidising those who can afford not to (but get given NI credits), which is topsy turvy, surely?

Obviously, nobody should do without any means of support in the sixth richest country in the world, but IMO those who opt out of paying for a pension should not be able to get one at the same rate as those who have worked, and have paid both tax and NI all their lives. If they could afford not to work, they can afford to pay for a means of support in old age. The money saved could go to older people on the lower pension, or to bring UK pensions in line with those in the rest of the 'First World'.

I also object to the idea that whether someone 'needs' an allowance or benefit should be decided by someone else. Who knows what someone else needs or does not, and who defines 'need'? Again, if someone has paid tax and NI, then IMO they should not have to prove poverty in order to be granted the same allowances as others.

There is also, IMO, an argument for encouraging everyone to use public transport (when it is safe to do so!), and I would like to see a free transport system paid for out of ring-fenced taxation. Those who choose not to use it should still pay, in lieu of a pollution tax.

(Clearly, this is something I have thought about a lot grin )

Esspee Sat 23-May-20 15:45:59

@EllanVannin I am so glad that you are financially secure. I am also, but would never suggest that others who are not in such a favourable position make do with even less in their later years.
Society owes a debt to the older generation and the pittance received in state pension +heating bonus is a disgrace.

ninathenana Sat 23-May-20 15:49:02

"All pensioners receive stare pension as well as a works pension" No they dont EllanVannin, for various reasons.
I have no works pension as I only ever worked part time after DD was born 32 yrs ago and it would have been a big chunk of my income.

Doodledog Sat 23-May-20 15:50:39

Reading back, I would rephrase the first bit of my post in case it is not clear that I think that tax on income should be a lot higher, so that those who earn more are paying more into the system than at present. I think that everyone should have enough disposable income to have a decent standard of living, and to be able to pay into a pension and/or to save.

My beef is not with people who can't afford to save, but with the idea that if you have, you should not qualify for various allowances, to which others are entitled by dint of having spent their money instead. What people do with their spare money (if that have any) should be a matter of choice - I am fully aware that not everyone has enough to save at all, and I don't think that this came over in my post.

AGAA4 Sat 23-May-20 15:50:49

As usual the poorest will suffer more in the financial crisis after coronavirus.

I have a private pension and feel those who are living on a basic pension should be looked after and receive the extras that they need.
We don't all need the winter fuel payment as much.

JonesKpj000 Sat 23-May-20 16:00:55

Doodledog, I agree with every word you have said.

Brahumbug Sun 24-May-20 04:25:50

The government should be looking at increasing the scope of both capital gains tax and inheritance tax. That is fairer than taking money that people have actualy earned, as opposed to mere asset inflation or a free gift from an estate.