But, what if you are not, or even don't want to be, on the internet?

"SueDonim Tue 11-Aug-20 01:24:11
And yet you’re posting here on social media, Spangler?"
You are right, I am posting here. But I never use Google to get here. I prefer a company that doesn't track me and sell on that information.

"vegansrock Tue 11-Aug-20 05:57:28
I wonder what people who are worried about their shopping or spending habits being online are really worried about. I honestly don’t care if people know I’ve bought a load of elastic or a pair or shoes."

I care very much. It isn't simply the purchase that's logged and profiled, it's the amount that's spent and the time and date. What do they want that for?

"MerylStreep Tue 11-Aug-20 08:47:27
Spangler
i'm no Luddite. so I won't be sharing my email address anytime soon
The above proves that you are. Millions of people know your email address. How do you think we get spam emails."

The way I define Luddite is someone who wishes for an end to something. The Luddites smashed up the machinery that they saw as a threat to their jobs. I have no wish to see an end to the internet.

"Furret Tue 11-Aug-20 07:01:06
I think Esspee that there are many VM’s out there and it’s not so much a case of ‘can’t’ but more ‘won’t’."

Guilty as charged, I'm a social creature that prefers engaging with others, so while I can, I will continue to bank at my bank, shop at the shops and pay bills at the Post Office.

If you enjoy using the internet, good for you, I don't mind. As yet I haven't missed out on anything, and MerylStreep, I'm still waiting for my first spam email.

I can't imagine life without the internet now. I've been on it for about 20 years and think the pros far outweigh the cons.
I'm not particularly technical but my sons make sure that I'm not doing anything too silly on it.
I do have sympathy though for those who don't use it, for whatever reason.

One of the big problems of relying so much on the internet is losing your connection. New houses have just been built next door to me and, although it seems hard to believe, the builders cut through the cable 4 times.
Full marks to BT who worked in the pouring rain and overnight to get it repaired, but even so, we were without phone and internet for several days. Inconvenient for householders but devastating for small businesses who rely on the internet.

I think the issue is when it affects other people. Not driving a car doesnt affect other people unless you are constantly asking for lifts. Not using the internet affects the people providing the service and particularly at the moment I think they are perfectly entitled to say you therefore cant have the service. They wont because they desperately need the money. But I think it's quite selfish.

So, should we say that everyone who is able should drive a car?

Spangler
i'm no Luddite. so I won't be sharing my email address anytime soon
The above proves that you are. Millions of people know your email address. How do you think we get spam emails.

I have all my children's bank details, grandkids,nieces and nephews too, it makes life so much easier when sending birthday money you just transfer across to them. I lend them cash on odd occasions and they can return it via mobile banking when they get paid. I love being able to check my accounts daily and pay my CC via this app too. Seldom do i have cash on me as i pay everything via cashless system. I use the internet daily, just would not want to be without either of them. Love being able to shop and not leave the house, most useful in the early days of lock down. I order medication online, recieve apointment reminders from GP and dentist, also hospital when necessary. Now we are able to email our surgery which is a new service, i used last week and booked a pneumonia jab which i had done yesterday. Its life now and we would all be lost without is i guess.

I’ve used internet banking/shopping etc for many years now and agree it’s life changing and so much easier and more reliable than the “old ways”.

But....though it’s a fact that the vast majority of people can use new technology if they want to and are simply making a rod for their own backs if they choose to be “dinosaurs”, there will always be those who cannot access it for various reasons. These people are probably already disadvantaged because of medical conditions, learning difficulties, poverty etc. Alternative ways to access services and discounts must always be available to these people so that they’re not left trailing even further behind.

Why not?
We all live with others' choices every day.

I catch the bus every day, where people choose not to wear masks, knowing that others may possibly die because of their choices.

Well it’s a choice of course, but don’t moan about it or expect others to inconvenience themselves to fit in with your choices.

What a good idea. Better than being handed a menu that has been handled by others.

I think Esspee that there are many VM’s out there and it’s not so much a case of ‘can’t’ but more ‘won’t’.

My BiL and SIL won’t do their grocery shop online even though he is high risk. They are convinced their bank details will be stolen.

We went out for dinner last night (first experience since lockdown) and we were told to access the menu via our phones.
O.H., being grumpy, announced he didn't have a phone. Nonsense of course but the older he gets the more like Victor Meldrew he appears.

But surely it’s a choice not to engage with online shopping, banking, etc.? I agree that perhaps the very old eg 90+ might not have had the opportunity to use computers in their working life, but certainly those on their 70s and most on their 80s had that opportunity.

I was certainly using them 20+ years ago.

I wonder what people who are worried about their shopping or spending habits being online are really worried about. I honestly don’t care if people know I’ve bought a load of elastic or a pair or shoes. Internet banking is much more straightforward and as secure as getting statements and cheque books through the post. Just because you don’t do internet banking, if you have a bank account you must realist the details are online for the bank to use , it’s just you choose not to look at your own details - the bank staff will be able to see it. I think if you live in the 21st century and don’t have a disability to prevent it, there’s no reason not to make your life and the lives of others easier.

This thread has made me think about my approach to the internet. It's only because of my kids that I have moved forward with it and if I had been childless I'm not sure who I'd have trusted, in the early days, to inform me. The eldest son passes on his mobile to me when he upgrades and the youngest keeps me internet savvy. I love it!

For my daughter, who is blind, it's been an absolute life-changer. She uses speech recognition to manage her bank account online plus all other internet transactions. She's an avid film buff and has nearly 100 films stored on her mobile, all purchased online.

Like others I've been reluctant to use online banking but have now started and it's great. The Santander format is very clear and user-friendly and if it should go wrong it's their problem.

My children and grandchild have certainly helped me with the internet which for me is a blessing as a communication tool. At work before my retirement, the idea of having a PA dealing with your mail was slowly dying out anyway. When I get my phone upgraded, I get my children to give me tutorials and then after that it is all trial and error. One should never stop learning, in my opinion.

It’s called progress and we all need to move with the times or get left behind it’s up to your brothers but they are the ones who will be struggling if they stubbornly refuse
My Nan bless her was really frightened of new innovations She would not use the phone to her going day she was terrified of it she wouldn’t have any of the modern labour saving inventions (washing machines fridge etc) and my grandad had a dreadful problem when he bought a tv home and they didn’t speak for weeks she wouldn’t have the arial on the roof, as in her mind the house was going to be struck down in the next thunderstorm My grandad had to compromised and have a huge great thing in their top spare bedroom I m amazed they didn’t part company to be honest
All that fear for nothing
My 84 year old friend has conquered the iPad and I m now teaching another friend by remote lessons as she’s had an iPad two or three years and never used it
Move with the times or get left behind

And yet you’re posting here on social media, Spangler?

I have a g-mail address for miscellaneous nonsense like employer requests, subscriptions (including Gransnet) and so on. I only look at it when I need to, which is rarely. That way I keep my real personal details as private as I want to.

It does irritate me that my employer needs my personal email address; and they've been badgering me for months to update my personnel records which I don't do. The IT log on security that, enables me to work from home, sends my personal mobile phone a one time code that I have to use to access my computer each day. And I resent that as well tbh. There's no way they're having my personal email address too.

GrandmaKT

Spangler it's really nothing to be proud of. You are going to be left behind. What will happen when you are too old and infirm to trawl round the banks and post offices to pay every bill in person? What happens when your post office closes or the local shops stop taking cash payments because there is no local branch to pay cash into (or is the pandemic continues because of health and safety concerns handling cash?)
While you are still young enough to learn don't you think you should?

That's a good point GrandmaKT, but I do find it annoying that every minutiae of my life is profiled. Why can't I have a cash card? One that I can top up similar to pay as you go phone cards. The answer is because I retain my anonymity, and we can't have that.

At present, I feel no sense of loss, It's taken me until now to get an email address, and that's only because of coercion by my employer. All my family and friends just text text me and that's fine by me, so I won't be sharing my email address anytime soon.

I'm no Luddite, the internet is was it is, I've been arm twisted to get an email address and I shall probably experience much the same in future. That people find technology helpful is fine by me, but I promise you this. Come the day when I have to use remote cameras with my doctor, there's no way I am going to show him, or the world, my haemorrhoids.

Oi, who are you calling oldies, Urmstongran? I’m 65 and definitely not old! Old is my mum!

I’m 65y and so still of the generation that thinks the internet has the ‘wow’ factor!

However I’ve banked on line with Nat West for over 15y and never had a problem. There you go I’ve hexed it now ...

I agree with Calendargirl in that once us oldies die off the young, who’ve grown up with the internet & comparison sites will take the whole concept forward.

No wonder the high street is dying. Have you tried to buy a pair of shoes in a shop? The staff display some options but no sizes are available and one is directed to order on line ‘because we don’t carry stock’. I don’t blame them. They can’t compete. Click and collect is (mostly) the way forward.
?

Well, maybe I'm wrong, but I take my hat off to that man for standing strong.