I know I m going to get my head bitten off but here goes anyway

I do hope you're all going to eat ethically sourced vegan food tonight. Otherwise perhaps you should examine your consciences.

Children living on farms see far more than shooting grouse

I would not be put out if Prince George had been at ONE shoot. He is at the age of enquiring about absolutely everything. I don't think his parents would embellish the truth and then things would start to evolve in how own mind regarding this practice. I recently had a commercial meal with my two GC. The elder (7) kept eyeing my meal in what I regarded as a curious way. 'Want to try some?' 'Didn't a chicken have to be killed for you to have that?' Yoiks! I was thoroughly enjoying it before that. I fumbled my way out of that conversation. Didn't do heavy because I assumed this teaching had perhaps come from vegetarian parents. Respectfully disagree. Another memorable occasion from my distant past. In the sixth year, we eighteen years olds were introduced to various parts of the big wide world. One was a trip to an abattoir. We were allowed to choose to wait outside once we arrived. Myself, one other girl and a lad did so. On exit, I never saw such a shocked, grey and sickly looking bunch of classmates. One macho rugby type was actually in tears. However, not one of them regretted having done it. I admired that. The ensuing debate/conversation was emotional but informed. Recently, I find myself gravitating to more meat free meals. That is not a reasoned choice. Just fits in better with my current lifestyle and laziness over cooking.

It is perfectly understandable that people do not want to see animals being killed, or to want someone else to do the killing for them. What I personally can't understand is why anyone enjoys killing.
Necessary yes, jolly good fun, no.

Can I ask how those who think that these shooting parties are OK can be absolutely certain thatthe bird is cleanly killed every time? Some of those taking part are inexperienced townies who just have the cash to do it. Isn't there a distinct possibility that some of the birds are just winged then killed off by a beater or the dog that finds them?

I'm not having a go but at least a wild bird gets to have a life. All the chickens people eat get about six to eight weeks of, usually, 'life' - an existence packed together in a shed.

Therefore, if you eat them, to claim cruelty in hunting wild birds is hypocrisy. Don't children deserve to know where their food comes from?

www.ciwf.org.uk/farm-animals/chickens/meat-chickens/

It`s barbaric, just as fox hunting is.
So you are spot on Bluebelle.

My opinion only, if you eat what you kill then there is nothing horrible or disgusting about it. My son loved fishing And crabbing from a young age (10) but he was taught to only catch what he could eat and was told if he was willing to catch fish he must be willing to clean and fillet them. This does not make him callous or bloodthirsty. We raised chickens and had a day where we killed them for the freezer, all three of my children participated and they were not traumatised nor did they become callous animal killing adults. We killed our own cows and the whole family helped with the chopping up of the meat.
Now before the “ meat for the table is different “ argument comes in to play, we did not have to do any of this, we could have bought all our meat from a butcher. It was our choice to kill our own and our choice to teach our children that doing so came with responsibilities.
Having said that, we also shot hares which we did not eat, why? Because they devastated our crops and you couldnt eat them because they are tough as boot leather. Sometimes friends would come to help.
None of these things makes us terrible people just as taking your son on a bird shoot does not make you a terrible person either.

The royal family don't exactly have to go out and get their own food. I doubt that William goes down to Tesco for a box of fish fingers, so why does he need to go out on the Moor for a bird?

He isn't the food provider for his family. He is there for fun. Evidently the next generation of royalty is being introduced to this strange idea of entertainment.

trisher, My experience of shooting parties is that they are strictly protected from inexperienced townees who can't just turn up because they have shedloads of cash. They have to have a gun licence for a start and be approved by the owner of the shoot.

Any dog killing a bird would never be allowed on a shoot again. Retrievers are soft mouthed and are trained to take injured birds back to their owners or dog handler. They are instructed in the direction to take when they retrieve. They are not allowed to just 'run in.'

Beaters are not allowed to break the line. Their own safety depends on them obeying the rules.

Injured birds are swiftly dispatched.

Kartush, I'm a vegan by choice, but for those who do eat meat, killing your own is the best, most honest way, I'm sure, of ensuring a quick, 'clean' end.

trisher, some birds may not die instantly - just as some farmed birds don't either!

I'm vegetarian but those who say grouse are bred for shooting they are not. Pheasants are. What people don't always realise is the numbers of raptors and other wildlife which are killed to protect the grouse for hunting. Poisons are put down and just recently someone has a dog poisoned on the grouse moors. Time for these shoots to be stopped. Too many birds are killed to eat so they are buried in pits, what a waste of life

I’ve always believed in eating what you kill or don’t do it, or at the least someone eats what you kill.

The idea that you can’t enjoy seeing whether you’re a good enough shot than the target is at escaping seems odd when taking to the nth degree. Are we not to enjoy eating flesh either? No yum yum sounds as food is served?

On the vegan point, I hope none are eating bread as more creatures are killed in wheat fields than on grouse moors!

SJV07

Badgers & foxes need culling as they are vermin. Have you seen a chicken house raided???

Badgers and foxes has the right to live, breed, raise young, eat, etc.. If you value your chickens then fox-proof their living accommodation. Yes, I have seen the aftermath of a raid, by foxes and by a ferret. Not nice. But if we choose to raise and animal such as chickens or guinea pigs then we have a responsibility to keep them save.

‘Cuse typos. I’m sure you get gist.

Well the Royals are from the hunting, shooting and fishing brigade, so there you go!

Pantglas2, good point! I make my bread from rice and cashew flour but my daughter works for a cereal farm. A chap there is employed, full time, just to shoot wood pigeons. There are free pigeons to feed farm workers - and their pets!

Well said furret and soniah
All animals deserve to live and not be hunted haunted and killed
Ohpantglass you just don’t get it do you I give up it’s not worth my breath ??‍♂️

Well the Royals are from the hunting, shooting and fishing brigade, so there you go!

If you mean they care about land management, protecting the countryside and providing employment/supporting local economies then I agree with you.

BTW Have I mentioned hunting has been banned and is therefore illegal?

I stand by my first post. Kill for food not for pleasure.
To say it's what the upper classes do and we can't change it.
Raping maids was, maybe still is, a sport of the upper classes. We wouldn't condone that and by virtue of public outcry they know it now so we can change their attitudes.
I do understand that it isn't just an upper class sport, although 'sport' says it all. I understand that culls can be necessary in the prevention of disease, I agree that we have to kill if we want to eat meat, I understand that battery farming is evil.
Kill to eat or to conserve not for sport or pleasure.
I do admire much of what the Cambridges do and do not admire much of the behaviour of the Sussexes but don't want to see either glamorise the killing of animals for pleasure.

Hetty there is a v........ast difference between defending your crops and grinning with glee that you’ve shot a bird out of the sky
BARBARIC and William and Kate should be ashamed to have their child present
I guess you’d use the same argument when people are sat astride an elephant or giraffe they have just cleverly shot just because they can ......uhhhhh

MawB the barbaric practice of gluing to trap little birds was commonplace in Lot et Garonne where we lived from 2013 until 2017. EU law means little to some.

There is a difference between shooting a bird you or someone is going to eat, though, Bluebelle and killing an endangered wild animal for fun which will not consequently be eaten.

BARBARIC and William and Kate should be ashamed to have their child present

BlueBelle Please will you tell us where this information has come from?

It's not at all clear whether or not this is true.