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Extinction - the facts

(85 Posts)
NfkDumpling Sun 13-Sep-20 20:44:22

Is anybody else watching David Attenborough just now? Scary stuff.

vegansrock Wed 16-Sep-20 05:29:29

Pointing the finger at Attenborough for travelling in a plane is surely shifting the blame and ascribing “guilt” which you are trying to avoid yourself? Yes we have the choice not to destroy wildlife, consume ever increasing stuff, pollute the air and the oceans, or not,. yet we choose the destructive path. Those who criticise Attenborough may also sneer at Greta Thunberg or XR as a form of cognitive dissonance -we know we should reduce , reuse, recycle and even refrain from doing many of the things we have become accustomed to, yet we are a selfish species that is able to exploit and abuse the natural world to the extent we face our own or future generations destruction but do not feel guilt.

Luckygirl Wed 16-Sep-20 08:53:49

I am not in the least blaming Attenborough, whose message is correct - simply pointing out the irony of someone who has made his living from flying round the world becoming the mouthpiece for environmental change. Nor am I blaming Greta T. Indeed the whole point of my post was to say that I am not blaming anyone at all!

So often the important message about biodiversity and about global warming is couched in terms that place nature at odds with us (and us at odds with nature), as if we ourselves are not part of that nature. There are not two things here, but simply one.

In nature often one species tries to dispose of another - mainly by eating it, but also killing it to defend territory - just as we do. Are grey squirrels to be blamed for swamping red by taking over their territory; are lions to be blamed for killing their prey; are cats to be blamed for killing birds? No - they are simply doing what comes naturally, as we as a human species have.

We have sought to kill bacteria and viruses; we have fought over territory; we have instituted agriculture, which has destroyed many habitats for other creatures that share this planet. All these things are simply part of nature, are what all creatures do - prioritise their survival. And, as we are part of nature, it is to be expected.

This huge shift that we now have to make from following our nature to going against that in order to ensure global survival is an unimaginable and revolutionary step.

My point is that it is not about blame, and that this needs to be removed from the message. When we are blamed, we tend to dig in our heels.

The equivalent of survival in human terms is profit and the accumulation of wealth, which in its turn brings health and well-being. Clearly it is not doing so for many fellow species, not for our fellow humans. But, make no mistake, if the disadvantaged humans in the world had the chance to get rich, they would surely take it: survival instinct at work.

In order to get out of this mess, we have to reign in our natural instincts. It is very hard indeed, hence the denials from the likes of Trump, who needs people to vote for him. Why would people reduce their own well-being when pursuing that is hard-wired? He is certainly not going to suggest they should as he would be out on his ear. And this applies to all national leaders. And so the problem persists.

The message needs to ditch the guilt and talk about our own self-interest; to get the message across that making sacrifices and changes is for us, not for some obscure species we have not even heard of - i.e. it is a survival mechanism, which we are naturally programmed to pursue. We are not trying to save the planet; we are trying to save US.

The message needs to be very strong indeed for humans to change - no other animal would give up its pleasures in order to save the planet. We, as fellow animals, are going to find this extremely hard. But we must do it.

25Avalon Wed 16-Sep-20 08:55:21

How about all these fires destroying the Amazon rain forest in Brazil? Listening to the news last night an environmentalist in Brazil said they were man made by farmers and ranchers to clear the land to grow soy and keep cattle. Their government aren’t doing much to stop it either.

Witzend Wed 16-Sep-20 09:42:24

I haven’t watched it. I am all too painfully aware of the issues, and don’t need reminding.

We do our bit as regards reusing and recycling, not to mention not buying a load stuff we don’t need - lots of our clothes are many years old and my kitchen is ancient - and we’ve never wasted food. We eat far less meat than we used to and avoid plastic as far as possible.

But I’m also painfully aware that some much bigger countries blatantly don’t give a stuff, so it’s hard not to feel helpless and that one’s own bit is like a grain of sand in the Sahara.

Alexa Wed 16-Sep-20 09:46:56

My drive is gravelled without weed membrane. There is now a healthy growth of grasses and wild thyme which I don't remove or cut back . Some of the grass is feral barley from the field that used to occupy the site.
I have not cut my 'lawn' all summer.
One of my garden borders is made up of old field hedge thorn and ash with privet and ivy mixed in, all uncut , very tall, and a great haven for birds who especially like the blackthorn's prickly refuge.

LadyBella Wed 16-Sep-20 22:46:08

I've just seen the news about fires in the Brazilian rainforest. I just want to scream. I am beginning to feel there is no hope and I worry so much about the youngsters. As I've said, I try to do my small bit. I've decided never to buy furniture again but will buy 2nd-hand and we have cut our meat consumption so we hardly eat any now. I also leave my environmental magazines that I've read lying around when I can - such as on public transport, though I'm not using it at the moment. Yes let's keep this thread going in the hope that more people will join in.

25Avalon Thu 17-Sep-20 14:44:14

If you eat meat make sure it is local and pasture fed. Do not buy intensively farmed meat as it is not only bad for the environment but bad for the animals too. Similarly do not use soy as substitutes unless you know its provenance. The rain forest is being destroyed by ranchers for more cattle and by farmers for soy. We need to watch the air miles on any food. Not eating unseasonal foods that are transported in is also important.

NfkDumpling Fri 18-Sep-20 20:56:28

Excellent post Luckygirl. In a nutshell!

I agree with Avalon too. We're fortunate to have good local butchers who name the farms where the meat is raised and also to have an abattoir only a few miles away which believes in careful humane handling of the animals. Stress and fear means tough meat so it makes sense.

It's much better too to eat vegetables in season which haven't travelled half way around the globe. They taste so much better too especially if grown in your own garden.

NfkDumpling Fri 18-Sep-20 21:00:51

(I have two food intolerances - garlic (really bad) and soya. And I hate lentils. It would be very difficult for me to be a veggie!)