Rather pay than give in

Well quite. All this talk of guns is just to stoke up the divisive flag waving. It’s horrible.

The Guardian is also frothing

The election was not fraudulent Varian. Would you rather no choice in anything? I wish people were held to account quoting such nonsense, Trump reckons his election unfair too.

I think you will realise from my user name that I am a fan of French cheese, although I am also partial to some British ones!I agree with the posters above though; this is not just about holding a cheese and wine party.

I am finding all of this 'willy waving', as one poster accurately describes the current situation, utterly depressing. Decades of peace and prosperity is to be the sacrifice for Boris the Clown to satisfy his boyhood ambition to be 'world king'. The man is an absolute disgrace and I feel ashamed that he is representing us in these talks and have zero confidence in his ability to do a deal. Even if he did, he would probably renege on it the next day.

The UK can produce its own food. Most people on this thread will be ok, but let there be no doubt that prices will rise significantly, and there will be hardship.

However, what makes me really angry is how the younger generation, who grew up as part of the EU and who wanted to stay, have had their rights stripped away by a bunch of jingoistic old people and Little Englanders. Our children will be curtailed in where they can go to study and there will be fewer European students coming here. There will also be a substantial effect on funding and sponsorship, as well as cultural exchanges.

And I know that I am very privileged to have a second home in France, and this is a first world problem, but it enrages me that I will only be allowed to stay there for a maximum of three months. I assume that things like receiving pensions abroad and reciprocal medical treatment may also be affected. I think that the full extent of the problems will only be apparent some months after Brexit.

I am generally an optimist so still cling to a shred of hope that disaster may yet be avoided, but then I remember who is in charge of negotiations.....

Let's just remember which foreign politicians backed brexit ,- Trump, the Feench fascist Marie i.e. Pen, and the man pulling the strings Vladimir Putin. Why did the Russia report, whose publication was,delayed until after the election show that there was no investigation into Russia's interference in the fraudulent referendum?

Exactly how I feel PetitFromage.

Politics is all about propaganda, making the voters believe what you are saying, playing on their prejudices and fears, believing we could influence 26 other nations to change their way of life.

A majority believed the propaganda but it was all lies, even now they talk of an Australia Deal, more lies, Google it, there is NO DEAL just a commitment on greater co-operation, the last paragraph explicitly says ALL imports to the EU must comply with EU regulations without exception.

This is exactly what the EU are saying to us, we can have a free trade deal but goods must comply to their regulations. We can buy whatever we want for home consumption, not for export to them.

I had really made my mind up to go but I've has a couple of supportive PMs and reading posts like Nezumi65's and Petitfromage's have given me hope , so get the invective ready if that's your thing.

I felt I especially had to make a comment about Pantglas's rather misinformed comments about the millennium bug, as one of the "boffins" who worked on the Y2K team for my then employer.

Christians celebrate Jesus's birthday on 25th Dec, the generally accepted year of his birth is 4AD. The date counter in all software was considered a risk because most programmers had set their year counters with 2 digits only, so when it rolled over to "00" it could have been interpreted as 1900. That was because the people who wrote the original software never believed that it would have to last 30 years, so it was only the older stuff we had to worry about. We'd been preparing for about a decade.

There, sorted that for you.

Pantglas2 Yet again, I will explain what the millenium bug was all about. I will keep it to simple stuff - because it wasn't very hard to understand. Well, I understood it, so it couldn't have been.

How many bits is your computing device? Is it a 64 bit? Well, when computing was in its infancy, way back in the 70' and 80's when the BBC Micro was the latest thing, you only got 8-bit machines. So programming could only be for 8-bit machines, and that was true for a long time.

What on earth is a bit, I hear you ask? A bit is a chunk of information that can be sent from part of the machine to another in one go. 8 bits represented a number containing 8 digits in code, which was interpreted and acted upon by a more complicated set of instructions. For instance, the 8 possible colours each had an 8-bit number. With 64 bits modern machines can understand vast numbers of colours, but with 8 you only got cyan, magenta, yellow, blue green, red, black and white. Other groupings meant other things.

After receiving 8 bits, the machine assumed that the next 8 bits were a new number with a new meaning. The largest number that can be represented this way was 256 - so there could only be 256 different instructions to understand and carry out.

8 bits didn't have enough variations to do ALL the years from the birth of Jesus to 2000, so programmers used only the last two digits - assuming that their software wouldn't still be in use in 2000. Those "boffins" didn't expect their programmes to be immortal. They were neither stupid nor arrogant.

Then computers caught on, everyone wanted one, and utilities and banks and so on used programmes to carry out their businesses - in 8 bits. Other makers designed machines that would use 16 bits - wow -and then 32 and now 64 and so it goes on.

BUT the original programmes still worked, with a bit of tinkering and additions, and the users didn't always get them completely rewritten, so by 1999 there were still bits of programmes in use here and there that only used the last two digits of the year - not only when referring to dates, but also in doing internal checks on whether the computer was properly tuned and working to exactly the right speed.

Programmes are many thousands of lines long, and a reference could be hidden deep in a long sequence, so could have come into use without warning - and the computer in question would then fail its timing test and switch itself off. That could have been disastrous.

Should have voted for Theresa's deal then all this hoohaa would be academic - or at least over!

Elegran - cross posts!

Great minds think alike, Alegrias but your post is much briefer and snappier than mine.

Petitfromage You are simply annoyed that you can’t stay for more than 90 days at your second home!
Aren’t you old btw? Your comments about a bunch of jingoistic old people is such nonsense well over 17 million of them? Please!
Most UK students study in the UK, so let’s not have sob stories about students.
I understand that those who have second homes are miffed, but it's how EU countries are responding to this situation.
Take it up with the French authorities!

Alegrias up to you if you go or stay, but threatening to flounce and then backtracking always looks a bit silly.

Yeah, that's the biggest worry I have in my life right now. Onward and upwards.

Ah yes I’d forgotten about the built in obsolescence factor......clever!

Petitfromage I’m in a similar position to you with regards to a second home but will get around it by applying for the three year visa waiver for the princely sum of €7!

From a young friend today- whose daughter was planning to go and study in Italy with Erasmus and won't be able to ...

''So the Daily Express virtually has us declaring war on France this morning. Which is arguably not unusual for the Daily Express but somewhat more unusual, irresponsible and pathetic for an actual U.K. government.
I’d like to say I don’t think I could be more ashamed of this country than I am at the moment, but I don’t doubt Johnson and the Tories will give me even more reason to be so.''

Raab didn't realise we were an Island- and it seems Johnson and many DE and DM readers do not realise this. We are surrounded by countries, and in this instance mainly France for direct access, and Holland - who were our partners and allies, and whom we have totally betrayed recently, Breaking international law even - and we are threatening 'war' on them! Really?!?

Because mark my word(s) - THEY will control what comes in or out of the UK (or not)- and if we can't even be bothered to end negotiations in a civil manner- then uncivil it will become. Medicines, essential goods, parts, chemicals for water processing plants, parts for supply chains for our remaining industries, and so much more. This is unbelievably stupid and irresponsible, and massively dangerous. (hyperbole? oh no).

Alegrias2

Yeah, that's the biggest worry I have in my life right now. Onward and upwards.

Indeed !

Pantglas2, oh that's funny. From someone who didn't know that the worry was about 1900 and thought it was something to do with Christmas. Ah well...

This is how conspiracy theories start......

lemongrove 'Your comments about a bunch of jingoistic old people '

just read some sections of the Press today, the Daily wotsits - and you will see it in all its glory- read the comments too. Shameful jingoism- and the French, and the EU are all reading those comments too, in their own Press and TV. That will help, I am sure.

Easily amused .....and reeled in time and time again. I can feel another flounce coming soon...?. Time for some Sinatra....?

do be do be doo.....

BTW that's a flamenco dancer, not a flouncer. Suits my username though.

Built-in obsolescence? Of the best available technology, well before it was improved upon? Must have been God who built it in then, linking it cleverly back to the (approximate) birth if His son.

Pity he didn't put some clues to it in his Book. Ah, but some say he did .

II Peter 3:8 is their proof ("one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day"). That is, according to this view, there would be 2000 years from the creation to the call of Abraham, 2000 years between Abraham and Christ, 2000 years in the Christian age, then a thousand-year "rest" period, the future millennium (mentioned six times in Revelation 20:2-7).
Seems we may be safe from Armageddon for another 1000 years. Phew!!

In the Old Testament they lived for hundreds of years - when did the counting system change, Elegran?

(Serious question btw)