Rather pay than give in

Pantglas2

Easily amused .....and reeled in time and time again. I can feel another flounce coming soon...?. Time for some Sinatra....?

You can always return the very next day Pantglas ?

Indeed Lemongrove or even change my name.....

You’ll know me by my flouncing flamenco dress ??

lemongrove -the 90 days is NOT how the EU is responding to this situation. 90 days limit for non EU members in the Schengen region has been around for years. We won't be an EU member so we have to abide by non-EU member existing rules. It's not an EU 'response' at all.

And the UK 180 days is not a UK response either. It is what is currently in place (being outside Schengen we could set a different limit).

I think if people are going to accuse the EU of bullying the poor old UK it's important to understand what is a response (so could reasonably be argued to be bullying) and what is a current arrangement for those not in the EU.

Which counting system do you mean, Callistemon ? For ages? If so, many older people nowadays are not sure exactly how old they are, and are inclined to exaggerate a bit. When there was no official recording system it was probably even more vague. The Old Testament books were recorded first by being memorised by a series of illiterate storytellers, with opportunities for adding a bit each time round. Once they were written down they were copied again and again by scribes and translated from one language to another, then another, like Chinese whispers. It is a wonder any of it came down to us as it started off!

Yes, the reporting of ages in the OT, Elegran

Noah died 350 years after the flood, at the age of 950, the last of the extremely long-lived Antediluvian patriarchs. The maximum human lifespan, as depicted by the Bible, gradually diminishes thereafter, from almost 1,000 years to the 120 years of Moses.

Nezumi65

lemongrove -the 90 days is NOT how the EU is responding to this situation. 90 days limit for non EU members in the Schengen region has been around for years. We won't be an EU member so we have to abide by non-EU member existing rules. It's not an EU 'response' at all.

And the UK 180 days is not a UK response either. It is what is currently in place (being outside Schengen we could set a different limit).

I think if people are going to accuse the EU of bullying the poor old UK it's important to understand what is a response (so could reasonably be argued to be bullying) and what is a current arrangement for those not in the EU.

I didn’t accuse the EU of bullying......
If they wanted to, they could ( under the circs) be as generous as the UK and make it 180 days.
Their laws are not written on holy tablets of stone.

I don't know where their longevity (or reports of it, at least) came from, Calllistemon We can only guess. In some cultures, people count their age as "XX summers" or "YY seasons", which may be relevant.

Ooh! The plot thickens. Read this, biologos.org/articles/long-life-spans-in-genesis-literal-or-symbolic/

Famous people in a lot of cultures were reported to have lives life-spans far longer than ordinary ones. Maybe it is a mesaure of how important they were felt to be? biologos.org/articles/long-life-spans-in-genesis-literal-or-symbolic/

Could also be months mistaken for years? Do you get a more "normal" number if you divide by 12?

Pasted same link twice, One should be en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longevity_myths

lemongrove

Nezumi65

lemongrove -the 90 days is NOT how the EU is responding to this situation. 90 days limit for non EU members in the Schengen region has been around for years. We won't be an EU member so we have to abide by non-EU member existing rules. It's not an EU 'response' at all.

And the UK 180 days is not a UK response either. It is what is currently in place (being outside Schengen we could set a different limit).

I think if people are going to accuse the EU of bullying the poor old UK it's important to understand what is a response (so could reasonably be argued to be bullying) and what is a current arrangement for those not in the EU.

I didn’t accuse the EU of bullying......
If they wanted to, they could ( under the circs) be as generous as the UK and make it 180 days.
Their laws are not written on holy tablets of stone.

British exceptionalism at its best - why oh why should they make an exception for the UK? Who has chosen to leave the 'Club' and make themselves 3rd country citizens.

We had a friend who was a member of the Golf Club but decided he didnt' want to pay full membership. He asked for his Membership toe be reduced. He was offered Off Peak membership, or social membership, at reduced price. But he wanted to play any time he wanted, peak time or not...

Guess?

Now Parky, you said you would rather 'pay' - but would you go to 'war'?

Would you pay by not having life saving medicines, for you, your children or grandchildren, Isotopes for cancer treatment? You could decide that choice of foods is not important- and I'd get that, sort of. Where do you stop?

Do you really thing Lemon- when Johnson is threatening actions with Army ships against the French- that that will encourage good will, really? Even if the French politicians show willingness to bend over backwards (and I don't think they will) how do you think the popular Press in France is dealing with such threats of Fish Wars and Navy Ships?

They don't have to go to war- they can just blockade- and in view of the geography- it will be VERY VERY easy- just passive blocking of ports and Mways- simple.

The French Press would have a field day if they had access to GN. Mind you- they could have- it is a public Forum for all to see.

If it came to French fishermen flouting the law in UK coastal waters then we would have to patrol those waters...
I suspect it’s the newspapers doing some stirring as they always do, but it’s the simple truth ( if it came to it) and I suspect it won’t.
I don’t give a fig what the French press would do if accessing GN biba ?

But the UK isn't being generous to the EU vs the EU being a big meany to the UK. That's the point I am making.

When we no longer belong to the EU then our existing rules for 3rd countries come into play.

The UK allows people to come here for 180 days
The Schengen area (so most of the EU) allows 90 days.

It's not about generosity or otherwise. These are existing rules that were drawn up when Brexit was only interesting to the headbanging right wing of the Tory Party. They are nothing to do with Brexit. Suggesting it's anything to do with the EU being unfair to the UK is just populist nonsense feeding into the gunboats 'to guard our fish' and 'shove your cake' narratives on display across the press this morning.

lemon, have you seen how EU nationals are currently being treated in the UK? Perhaps not. It is just appalling. After months of paperwork and red tape, even if they get approval to stay, they get absolutely no written confirmation of this, NONE whatsoever. Knowing what happened with Windrush- how can their trust their status can be proven if necessary.

You have no idea the stress and heartache this is causing- especially to elderly people, like my great friend. She has not computer, no i-phone and has had to get volunteers to help her, again and again, with the application. She is very frail, handicapped, with many health problems. She has had confirmation she can stay, but absolutely nothing to prove it. No document or certificate, NOTHING.

UK people in France are getting all their official documents, properly registered with copies and total, unequivocal evidence and documentation. Fair, did you say?

Indeed Nezumi, Schengen rules are written in stone.

I am one, no doubt of many, who had a no complaints life before EU. We did not starve, medicines were always available and listening to the doom and gloomers amongst us one could believe life did not exist more before the EU. Travel was not a problem in fact my most carefree no problem holidays were before EU. If you survived the after math of WW11 then leaving the EU? will be a 'piece of cake'.

Rules/laws can be changed.Perhaps that’s the real flaw about the EU, it’s so large and unwieldy that any law can take years to change.
In any case, for anyone with a second home in a EU country
All it takes is a few pounds and a bit of bureaucratic red tape to get round, as Pantglas has already found.

biba70

Indeed Nezumi, Schengen rules are written in stone.

Mount Sinai?

You might not give a fig lemon (wonder what that tastes like) ... but do you think that would help goodwill between the countries, frictionless flow of imports and exports, fair treatment of UK residents in France, and so on.

Or would it inflamme the situation even more. You should see the cartoons today and the headlines, about Johnson and fish wars. Piling on, quite rightly, the ridicule on Johnson, and sadly, all who sail in him or his ships. Calais and ports are going to be massively problematic anyway in 3 weeks time- but enrage the French farmers and fishermen- and it will turn dirty. They pick up the copy of the gutter Press, which is reproduced in the French Press- why oh why do we give them that ammunition- in such crucial times as this? Sheer, bloody madness.

Signing off for a bit. Basta.

Oh yes, we know all about the dirty tactics of French farmers
biba ....even their own governments could never control them and rolled over the minute they hit the barricades.
Nobody controls the press, either here or in France.

There won’t be any French fishing boats working they will all be blockading Calais, the French navy will protect their boats of course and we will see who blinks first then.

This could get really nasty if there is no fishing deal, trade deal not so much we will just pay the tariffs and fill in the extra paperwork

Biba70
What are Social Services in the UK here for ???????????.
If YOU or any PERSON know of elderly persons who are suffering in any way then it is up to each and every one of us and our duty to advise social services. No one should be left to do it themselves. Waste no more time GET this person help.

Why would the EU change the 90 day limit just for the UK? Which bit of English (let's face it, it's usually English) exceptionalism and entitlement even makes people think they 'should' do that?

I take if you haven't had much to do with social services if you think they're standing by ready to help.