Rather pay than give in

So what you're saying is those less educated than your own good selves shouldn't be voting.

Privileged middle class women don't get to see much depravity and how some people have to live. Maybe those people thought things might change. Worthy of their vote. Partially why do many Labour seats turned blue at the election

The way you're talking is making me wish I'd not voted Remain.

Such misplaced snobbery and total lack of compassion for anyone who wanted to see if they could get change.

And like Callistemon I too have anecdotal evidence. Young doctor PhD. Voted Leave. Aged 30.

He hails from Africa.

The EU don't have a great record even dealing with Africa.

It’s not the arrogance of cronyism merlotgran, that’s the dangerous kind.

There is always so much vitriol in these threads. We are where we are, let’s look forward and look to the positives. The UK govt will have more money as it was a net contributor to the EU. This is a good thing, although I suspect the economy will be bad for a while due to Covid. I will make the most of it. And I come from working class stock although you would probably call me middle class now, and have a Mensa IQ.

Lucretzia no, that wasn’t what I meant, rather that the less educated were less equipped to filter the messages pushed on the public by the tabloid press and unscrupulous politicians who honed in on the immigration issues and sold them a pup.

merlotgran

Casdon

Sadly lemongrove the country will be moving on, and it will ultimately largely be the educated remainers who have the task of salvaging what’s left after this debacle.

By the way, the fact that we weren’t all on this site four years ago may indicate that we’re slightly younger and more likely to reap the consequences of a decision made by the ill informed - it certainly doesn’t mean that our needles have been stuck in the same groove for four years.

This post certainly takes top prize for arrogance.

Yep! ?It’s the most arrogant comment ever on GN and the stupidest.

Only person Ruth is interested in is herself.Ask her constituents how many surgeries she turned up for ? Would that be one ? yep .Ruth hasn't actually ever won an election..its always been on the list the same as Murdo who has had 20 years in Holyrood as a list MSP and who backs the tory views all the way. Sad people who run down their country and its people at every chance .Maybe thats why we haven't voted for a tory majority since I was born ...mid 1950s .
Sadly Labour have gone down the same path and we've seen how labour voters reacted.Labour is dead in Scotland and it would take a new Independent Labour party not being operated from London, in an Independent Scotland where they work FOR Scotland and not against us for them to get any power back .

Casdon

Lucretzia no, that wasn’t what I meant, rather that the less educated were less equipped to filter the messages pushed on the public by the tabloid press and unscrupulous politicians who honed in on the immigration issues and sold them a pup.

Shortly followed ( second prize!) by this arrogant comment.

The UK contributed 7 billion to the EU. Given the loss in trade, the fall in GDP and the cost of Brexit I don't think we'll have any spare cash.

Test Track and Trace has cost 12 billion so far for comparison

Sorry but you do make me smile lemongrove.

Ditto Casdon ?

'most arrogant comment ever'? Au contraire. They were many, many worse this time last year extolling the virtues of BJ. Going to save the country etc. And here we are, a year in, in the middle of a pandemic with the Tories using what should be life saving tax money to instead line their mates pockets. You couldn't make it up.

The time for all the pro remain comments was before the referendum. However, us remainders were so complacent and sure of winning that all we did was laugh at Nigel Farage. Who's laughing now?
As to those odd comments re Ruth Davidson. She's our local MSP. She's cheerfully helped us on a local issue. She won her seat and isn't a list MSP.

All hail mighty Casdon. We bow to your supreme knowledge, logical and rational judgement that surpasses everyone else’s. How lovely it is to be so certain. How large the crash will be when the mighty fall.

Not all remainers are young and educated, I’m definitely old and the best I managed was 5 GCEs, at 16 school finished which I enjoyed and began my education. I learned a trade, not just the craft of doing the job but keeping the customer happy, which can be much more demanding.

The principle that the “customer is always right” is universal - even if they are barking mad, so you either accept that or find another customer. If we want to sell to the EU we do it by their rules or we find another market for our products. It is exactly the same with shopping in the supermarket, if you the customer don’t like the brand or what they sell you go elsewhere.

They certainly don’t say this is what we sell you must buy it.
If any of you leavers were faced with that choice you would put 2 fingers up and go elsewhere.

As I expected the EU have not compromised on basic principles and it looks like we are going to turn our backs on our nearest customer, in the hope of finding alternative consumers elsewhere, commercial madness, most business and banks have been saying exactly that.

All this xenophobia we are seeing, particularly aimed at the French works both ways, their attitudes are hardening against us and that is not going to help when we travel or when we try to sell them our goods. Maybe we will find better customers, at present there is nothing but aspirations and dreams, it looks like the only benefits are going to go to speculators that can make money out of someone else’s loss.

Perhaps the OP who would rather “pay than give in “ would accept a “Brexit bonus tax “ and a cut in her pension to help pay for it ( for leave voters only) , plus of course she won’t mind about the rise in food and just about everything else prices that will inevitable be heaped on us all whether we like it or not.

Jane10

The time for all the pro remain comments was before the referendum. However, us remainders were so complacent and sure of winning that all we did was laugh at Nigel Farage. Who's laughing now?
As to those odd comments re Ruth Davidson. She's our local MSP. She's cheerfully helped us on a local issue. She won her seat and isn't a list MSP.

Well some might have been complacent and laughing at Nigel Farage but those of us who saw the writing on the wall were out campaigning to save our place in Europe. ( you lost, get over it.... plays in the background)

People get told off on here for lumping all the Leavers together so don't lump all the Remainers together either.

As for Ruth Davidson, in my post I did say she showed some backbone in opposing Brexit. However she seems to have been strangely silent on the matter since being given a nice little seat in the House of Lords. Epitomising the duplicity of your average Scots Tory.

Jane ''The time for all the pro remain comments was before the referendum. However, us remainders were so complacent and sure of winning that all we did was laugh at Nigel Farage. Who's laughing now?''

who is the 'we' you are talking about? Experts from all fields explained very clearly what is not becoming project dire reality- they were derided and told they were fear mongering. From all fields - academic, medical, business, haulage, etc, etc, etc.

And others, non experts, said again and again that a Deal which allow the UK to get all the benefits, and none of the responsibilities and rules linked to level playing field. That was never ever on the table - and if anyone believed it, it was because the PM and ERG, lied, lied and lied some more- because they, I can assure you, knew that- always, from the start.

So we have to be quiet before, during and now when what we knew would happen, is happening, or perhaps has happened.

And stay quiet when Johnson and ERG destroy our Parliamentary Sovereign Democracy- in the name of ... Sovereignty.

Be quiet, lie on your back, jump over the cliff - if you wish.

True optimism and positivism is not about being quiet and keep schtum - but about saying, doing, before, during and after, always- what can be done to stop the worst damage.

How can it be optimistic and postive to lie there, watching the future of our grandchildren sold down the river? Beggars belief.

Epitomising the duplicity of your average Scots Tory.

Tory politician, not tory voter - I should have been clearer about that.

Just seen a mpa of where the UK fishing fleet was fishing yesterday - the vas majority were around Iceland, Norway and Danemark, the North Spanish and Portuguese coast, and all the was down the Portuguese coastal waters.

I imagine 2 things
a) the EU has more gun ships
b) protecting waters will go both ways

no?

Makes the whole fish waving stance just ridiculous.

It is on Jason Hunter's site, if anyone can copy and paste.

By the way, the fact that we weren’t all on this site four years ago may indicate that we’re slightly younger and more likely to reap the consequences of a decision made by the ill informed - it certainly doesn’t mean that our needles have been stuck in the same groove for four years.

I don't know how old you are, Casdon or how well-informed you are but amongst friends and family who voted to leave, I know they all researched it well.
I disagreed with them but that is by the by, I respected their views.

All age groups eligible to vote were able to do so (with the exception, as someone pointed out of a minority of students whose votes were not registered at their place of residence - but why did they not apply for a postal vote? We did.).

If a fairly high proportion did not bother to turn out to vote on such a momentous issue then they only have themselves to blame instead of lashing out at those who did make an effort.

Callistemon ??????

GagaJo

25Avalon

Why is one side so sure it is right and everyone else is wrong, racist and idiots? It must be great to have such certainty.

Because when asked, a lot of Brexit voters voted that way because they were anti immigration and voiced comments such as 'England is full up'.

Gagajo
There was also the classic interview on our local TV with a young woman, a mother, who, when asked which way she would vote said "Referendum, what referendum?" And upon being told that it was about our membership of the EU asked "what is the EU?".

Now, I know it will be pointed out that she was not typical of young voters but neither are the stereotypes described on here of older voters.

Watching the BBC news this morning there was a logistics expert interviewed regarding transport post 31/01/2021 he pointed out that if we leave without a deal one of the biggest problems for hauliers will be the French Fisherman blockading French ports along with French Teuckers blocking roads approaching French Ports. Monsieur Macron will have no control of that situation which is why he is playing hardball and will use his veto.

It really is time for the UK negotiators to stand firm.

I really cannot believe that WE are putting gun boats in the North Sea. All I can say is 'Not in my name'. The situation has become so far beyond belief that I almost swallowed this quote -

To prove our fish are ours, all fish will be tattooed with a union flag.

The Daily Mail’s front page this morning is an utter disgrace.

Chris Patten was spot on yesterday.