British class system

nanna8 try living as a member of the Gypsy, Roma & Traveller community. They are poorly regarded ny huge numbers of people from all life experiences.

My background is similar to many..my mum's family was from a traditional ' working class' background. She left school at 14 & went to Pitman's on a bursary. My father's dad was a 'working class' lad who went to war. He ended the WW1 in the Middle East, stayed there to work in a British Government civilian role, married the local doctor's daughter... that was not likely to have happened in Darlington where his family of sweeps & steelworkers came from! Eventually, posr WW2, family is forced to leave & move to UK. My father became a barrister but the class system (then) kept doors firmly closed... he had not been to the right school to get into chambers...
Whilst things have changed for the better, and whilst ones social circumstances should not define you the British people, generally, are hopelessly snobbish... and so we are still defined by "class" even if we like to think we are not.

At least you don’t have ‘untouchables’

Yes, Australia has its own class system, Casdon.

In fact, I doubt there are any countries which haven't.

The British class system explained:

m.facebook.com/watch/?v=1870718759725920&_rdr

Sorry if I’m stating the obvious - every society, whether it sets out with that intention or not, does form into a hierarchy. For example in Australia the aborigines have been treated as ‘lower class’, a pattern similar to many other countries, and in all countries class status is conferred on people of certain professions etc. etc. There’s always a ruling elite, and their status is accepted by the population, and there’s always a section of society who are at the bottom in terms of status and opportunity. (or ability, for whatever reason, to take up opportunity when it is available). A classless society is an impossible dream - to be aspired to of course, but in the knowledge that we will never reach El Dorado.

Have to admit my Australian born kids who went and lived in the uk for a couple of years thought the class system there very funny and quite odd. Because they were ‘professionals’ with Australian accents they were treated as if they were very respectable and acceptable across the board. I agree ,though, the class system is everywhere but perhaps not so defined as it is in the uk.

Thank heavens the 60s broke down some of the barriers (it’s amusing that John Lennon liked to think of himself as working class when he came from the ‘posh’ part of Liverpool
Yes, just round the corner from my cousin!

not to know that series such as Downton Abbey and dramatised versions of Austen’s novels are not hugely popular

Am I misreading this?
They are/were hugely popular, surely?

I did state previous generations MOnica regarding knowing your place etc. and you must be living on a different planet not to know that series such as Downton Abbey and dramatised versions of Austen’s novels are not hugely popular.

Coming from a background where the idea of 'knowing our place and doffing our caps' was unknown, I really do not recognise the world you are talking about hollysteers

I have never felt any desire to watch Downton Abbey or any of its predecessors or successors, for much the reasons you state. I like my history to be accurate.

Hollysteers Exactly.

trisher’s post is the most impressive on this thread. In fact not much more needs to be said, but I’ll add my pennyworth.
Of course class divisions still exist here, for start, we are all subjects and previous generations really knew their place, doffing the cap etc. There is still a deep seated nostalgia for those so called “good old days” witnessed by the huge popularity of series such as Downton Abbey, with its sugar coated version of relations between the aristocracy and staff.
Thank heavens the 60s broke down some of the barriers (it’s amusing that John Lennon liked to think of himself as working class when he came from the ‘posh’ part of Liverpool
and was a suburban model child) In many fields, street cred and a local accent are almost obligatory but as trisher states, look at who really rules the roost.
Joan Bakewell from Stockport, went to Cambridge, heard her fellow students and quickly removed her regional accent. Thankfully this is no longer the case but I am probably not alone in finding some commentators’ exaggerated regional accents hard going.
kircubbin material things do not signify class in this country, money and a Ferrari, nice as they are, do not relate to a person’s class.

Kircubbin I quote from your post
we have quite a few hairdressers,clerks and uneducated women who have married their boss, doctor, judge. They flaunt their wealth and are quite cliquish. I still dont view them as upper class.

Socio-economic class is based on occupation.

As I have said I was not brought up to think or talk about anyone in the terms you choose to use.

People are what they make themselves. I have no experience of anything else.

An open mind, a concern for individuals and as much education (in all its aspects, formal, informal, and accidental) as can be absorbed put people into a higher "class" than those unable to notice anything that wasn't deliberately taught to them for the few years that they were in school. That applies whatever their financial or social position.

Monica what has that to do with class? You are talking about education.I wouldn't consider any of the royals as greatly educated or clever but I think they are regarded as upper class.

Calistemon You say "Surely an eclectic appreciation of literature should be encouraged and not one based on contrived class divisions?" but for literature from the past where as a start the language may not be exactly what we are accustomed to, it can make it more understandable to consider whether it was written, say, for a performance at court like a masque, where author and audience would be familiar with foreign languages and classical allusions, or to be performed in a village, like the miracle plays with the actors and audience mainly farm labourers and artisans.

Shakespeare's plays were performed to a very varied London audience, from aristocracy in the boxes to the groundlings in the standing-room only pit, and contain a mixture of scenes from royalty discussing politics and strategies of war to very earthy comedy, all woven together. Awareness of this variety adds to the appreciation of the skill of the playwright.

Clever??

Kircubbin when I was a child, in the 1950s if my mother and I heard anyone expressing the ideas you have expressed, my mother would have collapsed into giggles and considered you so old-fashioned and antiquated. Who cared about class? That went out with WW2

There is more to education than just exams passed. I have know people who left school at 14, who have over the years read widely and followed up interests they have to become both erudite and respected for their learning.

There are a lot of university graduates who have learnt their degree subject but are otherwise totally uneducated. I worked with several of their kind back in the 1980s. Today most of the current cabinet can best be described as uneducated. Clever yes, but otherwise uneducated.

If Socialism is a "watered down version" of Communism that would make Conservativism a watered down version of fascism and both views of politics would seem to be very lazy thinking.

The idea that "class will always be there", as in "the rich man in his castle, the poor man at his gate", each with his status ordered from birth makes be wonder if some people are still living in the days Jane Austin also lazy thinking and takes no notice of where we have got to only what people want the world to look like - a museum to their life and times.

We live in times of the greatest social mobility known to our species, or we did until Long Covid and Long Brexit hit our country. Social mobility is down to money, education and felicitous opportunity. Class is both a way of measuring wealth and opportunity. It is used by economists to measure change while gossips use it to manipulate and make themselves feel superior and in this sense, in answer to the OP, it is an anachronism.

But - I may want a new kitchen
And whoever moves into my house will definitely want one!!

Then all that money to spend on travel won't save the earth
It might save jobs

Callistemon

I'm still wondering - if I downsize will I move down a class?

Definitely not. Downsizing and helping to save the world is acceptable to all classes.?

I think you take your class with you. What do you think of Katy Price?

Missfoodlove

Kircubbin Are you saying couples should only marry if they are in a similar job or profession?
How do you know they are uneducated?

Im not saying that at all . I know they are uneducated because I have been friendly with a few of them from when children were born/ went to school . They are mostly nice girls and friendly. I am just pointing out their class and how they have moved up the ladder, own tennis courts, horses , villas in Spain.

Callistemon

I'm still wondering - if I downsize will I move down a class?

???

I'm still wondering - if I downsize will I move down a class?