Megan and Harry again!

I believe Katherine Kent’s breakdown was solely associated with a termination and then a stillbirth, which could happen to any woman. The RF was not a major component.
Returning to any job in a state of distress was unwise and she stated herself that it was her decision to return.

Katherine Kent did not distance herself from the royal family,
she attends weddings, celebrations and she lives in Kensington
Palace , hardly distanced herself has she.

And she is still listed in the court circular as H.R.H. The Duchess of Kent.

She delivered meals on wheels and no cameras, she didn’t write on bananas.

Using her illness and loss of two babies to try to bump up the
‘give me more money Megan’ is a case of hitting rock bottom and still drilling,

NellG -quick word of thanks for your posts here. I enjoyed your analysis of why Meghan Markle seems to cause such anger amongst so many.

I agree Iam64 and find it interesting that any thread about H & M usually ends up discussing Meghan far more than him. Even the interview with Oprah states that he will "join" Meghan later from the wings.
Most of the women who marry into the RF family upstage their husbands.
I think Harry will stagnate whereas Meghan will continue to evolve!

The press have much to do with the women upstaging their husbands. Coverage of what she is wearing when they make a public appearance is usually on the front page.

So really Harry has swapped playing 2nd fiddle to William which he disliked to now playing 2nd fiddle to Meghan. Ironically.

Oprah would not give her the time of day or know who she was had she not married Harry. It opened doors for her.

Lillie

^apparently she should have stayed and suffered.^
But exactly what suffering was Meghan having to endure? That nobody asked if she were ok?

I have no idea what she suffered nor actually does anyone else on this thread. But she certainly didn't like life in the RF and why should she? She made a sensible decision and moved away from them.
It does seem that women who try to manage their own lives and live independently are not welcome in the RF. There is a history of them, all dealt with in different ways like Caroline of Brunswick, the Duchess of Windsor, Fergie, Diana and Meghan.

NellG

Galaxy Perhaps that's what's really at the heart of the dislike for M - she threatens our reserve and therefore our intrinsic Britishness? By marrying into the RF - ie essentially infiltrating what many see as the bastion and helm of the British identity, she is perceived as a direct threat on an individual level? As in if she can 'break' the monarchy and make herself equal what will she and people like her do to the rest of society? I mean if people like M create a level playing field how does a society like the UK with its social heritage respond? Thinking of it in those terms it's not quite so suprising that she invokes such visceral reactions - perhaps those reactions are simply vented through the language and experiences of people, because it's not so much who she is but how she makes us feel? She could be symbolic of a much deeper, visceral threat that may not be real, but people feel in their gut. In short, she is catalysing and figure heading deep change.

Genuine questions for discussion - no shade.

You have given me food for thought there NellG. In contrast to Meghan, Catherine has toed the line in the court of public opinion. Every edition of Hello magazine has glossy pictures of Catherine to remind us of her wholesome image with not a hint of criticism to besmirch her unsullied reputation. Just the sort of wife we would want for our favourite son.

I agree Parsley3. Although does Catherine not have to work equally hard to achieve that particular image, in other words there is pressure on her too? She achieves the right balance.

Yes you are right Lillie. I don’t envy Catherine her task as public opinion is so fickle.

trisher I agree we can't know exactly what happened re KK, but we do know she changed her life and pulled away from the RF after a series of tragedies and a period of ill health. I also agree that there is a history that suggests it's not a family that is particularly inclusive of difference or independence. But, I do wonder if that's true of many other families too - I left mine because their control was frankly dangerous. The reason I say this is because it strikes me that many families are exactly the same in their dynamics as the RF, but the RF is the only family wherein the power and control issues are not only accepted but supported, condoned, encouraged and backed up by centuries of tradition, the press, the public etc etc. Is it not basically insane that any self respecting, intelligent woman ( which Meghan appears to be) would willingly walk into that and expect to walk out of it without censure? It's not as if she didn't have the examples that you quote to look to. If she is an intelligent woman who just fell in love and wanted to be happy but couldn't be so within the RF as an institution ( bearing in mind they are still loved) then it follows that she never had any intention of being part of the 'firm' and was always going to pull away, taking Harry with her. She just played the necessary game to get out. Harry is either complicit, he's not a muppet - or trauma bonded by a woman who shows traits from the Dark Triad. She can't be both clever and independent and bafflingly stupid at the same time can she? If she can, it's going to look to the outside world like she's manipulative.

If looked at this way is it such a surprise that many people feel in their gut, if not their mind, that not only they, but the RF, have been gaslit to beyond an back by a schemer?

Just playing devil's advocate because I think it's a fascinating discussion with many facets.

Katherine Kent did not pull away from the family, she retired from public life but is still part of the family.

As for listing the Duchess of Windsor with Fergie , doesn’t make sense.

Kate and William work as a couple, I don’t see one stronger than the other.

They are not living independently of the RF are they trisher, they're using their connection for publicity. The 90 minute interview with Oprah is only because he is Prince Harry and she is married to him. At their last public engagement H was using the occasion to push M forward for work.

A professional photographer was hired to ensure maximum publicity when H laid a wreath on Remembrance Sunday.

There's more to this than not wanting to be a working royal, there's the family element too. They went behind H's GM's back, putting their plans in order before anyone knew what they were doing. They have and probably continue to receive financial support from H's father to sustain their extravagant life style.

None of us know any of them that's true, but the close relationship between H and W was evident and that no longer appears to be the case.

H spoke of being 'his mother's son', what about his father?

Then there's the portrayal of the British public. That we are racist, the wedding was used as a tourist attraction. 1000's of people lined the streets to wish them well, genuinely happy to see H married.

I don't remember it ever being said that either of them wanted it to be a strictly private affair. The celebrity guest list alone was enough to encourage world wide publicity.

They lecture about saving the planet and yet Oprah takes a private jet just to interview them. The constantly complain about publicity but seek it at every opportunity.

Smiles I fear you and I have personal insight into this that other people really don't want to grasp. Not because they are stupid, or we are wrong but because to accept it as a reality - that there are people out there capable of inflicting such deep wounds on people, even nations - is so terrifying they cannot accept it. So we become the threat to the stars quo, not the perpetrators who do it it simply because they can.

* status quo

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Good grief.

I believe Meghan is manipulative, NellG I wish I could sympathise more with her but every part of her life has been calculated and self-serving, including her treatment of her father and friends she no longer needs.

I would give her full marks for guts if she had really tried to embrace royal life before taking the pre-planned escape route.

The celebs at her wedding were there for future use. George Clooney admitted he didn't even know them but treated them to a lavish holiday, ditto Elton John although he already knew Harry.

Oprah was the biggie. They barely knew each other but she's now Meghan's trump card.

Jessica Mulroney is now toast despite the charming footage of her twin sons carrying Meghan's train into the chapel and her support during the 'Vancouver period.'

The photo shoot in H&M's Montecito garden with Gloria Steinem was neatly timed with the success (in the UK) of the series Mrs America. Funny that Harry wasn't roped in on that one.

If somebody can give me proof that she isn't a user and discarder, I'd be happy to keep an open mind.

Good post at 10.41 NellG Wasn't that the problem for Chelsy Davy, Harry's previous great love, that she couldn't accept life as a Royal with all that entailed? If Harry was always eager to rid himself of his own role in the RF I wonder why he didn't do it then.

I do agree merlot and Smileless

NellG I think many intelligent and successful women fall in love and think they will be happy changing their lives. Especially those who have reached a certain age and want children and a family. I also think that the most experienced and media-savvy person coming from the USA would have difficulty even imagining the restrictions and formalities involved in joining the RF. It would be a bit like dropping us into the 19th century, we might know a bit of history but it wouldn't really help us.
I think possibly one of the most shocking things for Meghan would have been the realisation that she actually would have little power over her own children and their lives. Children born into the RF remain under the jurisdiction of the monarch. And although her wishes would usually be respected they didn't have to be. Which is probably a reason they skipped off secretly. Queenie could have stopped them taking Archie.
Usng a connection is not the same as being dependant on Smileless2012. She was an actress and used publicity before she married and is entitled to do the same afterwards.
As for Harry and his father it's always assumed that the princes had good relationships with Charles, and perhaps they have. Even so there must be an element of resentment there. Forgetting how his mother was treated, knowing the cheating and conflict, seeing his father married to the woman involved in that couldn't have been easy for Harry and perhaps he feels better away from it all.
As for the wedding the public lapped it up. I didn't watch it.
What seems to have happened is M&H were built up in the public minds to be something of an idol, and now the idol must be knocked down.

Well said merlot and smileless

merlot It's hard not to see her that way. A you say, no one can offer an alternative view that sticks.

Alegrias The way I see it is that we all have choices over how we behave and what we say, and with that comes the knowledge that we will be judged for it. It's pretty much demonstrated on this forum everyday.

There are consequences, and sometimes those are approval and validation, sometimes they are censure and aggression. As adults it's not a gamble, it's a conscious choice to take the risk and carry the consequences isn't it?

Bottom line is, no one is obliged to like the woman and if she does things that give cause for debate and discussion then she does it with the full knowledge that the world is watching and it will judge her. We don't have to be nice just because it suits others - she isn't IMO, they aren't IMO so who is setting the bar?

If they want to be happy fine, go off be happy, I have zero issue with that. If they are going to continue to place themselves in the public eye, they are inviting discussion and I'm going to discuss them. As are you. It's all fine. Until her/their lawyers contact me with writ for defamation, libel or slander I'm just chatting. Same as you.

Blimey Trisher I totally agree with your last post ??

Extraordinary