Gransnet forums

Chat

"Tradition is just peer pressure by dead people" ?

(142 Posts)
Mamissimo Thu 25-Mar-21 11:30:50

This caught my eye in The Times today and brought me up short. I've been mulling it......and I think I agree...do you?

Peasblossom Thu 25-Mar-21 18:35:14

No, no, be fair 3nanny6, you said Pakistani not BAME.

That was what I pulled you up on, though you have since changed it.

But you can’t blame me for commenting on what you originally said.

Peasblossom Thu 25-Mar-21 19:31:01

Southall is not a town or a city, anymore than Wimbledon is a separate town or city. It’s London.

And the “race” you’re looking for is Punjabi.

To call them Pakistani is a bit like saying I’m French. Quite close on the map and the same colour?

Doodledog Thu 25-Mar-21 19:41:21

Punjabi isn't a race either.

It isn't too difficult to see where someone who mistakes all people of colour as Pakistani has got it from - there is a word that is still used to describe pretty much anyone with a brown skin that assumes the same. Pretty shocking really.

How has this thread got here from a question about tradition?

Peasblossom Thu 25-Mar-21 19:48:43

I hope it didn’t come over that I thought Punjabi was a race? I quoting Nannys term back to her?

Tangerine Thu 25-Mar-21 19:48:48

Coming back to the original subject of the thread, I think some traditions are good and some should be dropped. Simple as that.

The trouble is that people will not all agree on what is a good tradition and what is a bad one.

Peasblossom Thu 25-Mar-21 19:50:29

Think it started with Gagajo saying tradition was a white, privileged male thing.

Doodledog Thu 25-Mar-21 19:52:01

Peasblossom

I hope it didn’t come over that I thought Punjabi was a race? I quoting Nannys term back to her?

Ah, I did wonder grin.

JaneJudge Thu 25-Mar-21 20:00:07

I don't like those gold medal chains things with cloaks

JaneJudge Thu 25-Mar-21 20:01:39

all the old boy school stuff, committees, clubs
people in Bentleys with chains and some fur parking in disabled spaces at functions for people with disabilities, then they eat all the buffet

M0nica Thu 25-Mar-21 20:01:48

Tradition is not just one monolithic 'thing'. It needs definition.

As for saying they are made by dead white men, that certainly fits with the current Zeitgeist, but how far that is true, I am not sure. Of course it is possible to name traditions male in origin, but there have in time and still are traditions around childbirth, child rearing, menstruation and the menopause - and old wive's tales to go with them, which are entirely female in origin.

I read somewhere that a traditon is simply somthing your parents did regularly. Many of the traditions people respect are frequently only 2 generations old and disappear with a third.

The one thing I have learnt in life is that every thing is mutable and that particularly applies to traditions. This years immutable tradition is out with the rubbish next year and completely forgotten the following year.

We also back invent traditions. Take the Tradtional English breakfast. Where did that come from? Go into into a hotel and the TEB will include eggs, bacon, sausages, the option of a regional delicacy(black pudding), tomatoes, hash potatoes, mushrooms, baked beans and half a dozen other ingredients.

Look back to see what an English breakfast was 50 years ago, in a home, or hotel. It was an egg, piece of meat (bacon, sausage, black pud or something else) but one only, and a slice of fried bread. occasionally a kipper, toast and marlelade and a cup of tea. In poorer families it was likely to be just fried bread plus egg or bacon.

Certainly not the cornucopia we are offered now and no fruit juice, cereal, breakfast breads and all the other thingse.

Traditions are not something to get hung up on.Traditions are like dogs, not just for Christmas, but most traditions probably last less than 20 years. Slightly longer than the dog.

Callistemon Thu 25-Mar-21 20:03:55

Peasblossom

Think it started with Gagajo saying tradition was a white, privileged male thing.

I blame Morris dancers

Gannygangan Thu 25-Mar-21 20:04:26

Just throwing something else out here

BAME is an acronym which doesn't sit well with the people it's describing.

My son in law loathes it.

And I've read a few articles where people are explaining why it's not appreciated

A couple of days ago I was watching Jeremy Vine and the brilliant Nana Akua was saying how much she hated it as well.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53194376

GrannyGravy13 Thu 25-Mar-21 20:08:50

JaneJudge

all the old boy school stuff, committees, clubs
people in Bentleys with chains and some fur parking in disabled spaces at functions for people with disabilities, then they eat all the buffet

What’s wrong with Bentleys? Good, solid and UK made car.

Nanna58 Thu 25-Mar-21 20:16:02

God I am sick of people rubbishing British Tradition because it is handed down from ‘ dead white males’ . This same people wouldn’t trash traditions from other cultures, that wouldn’t be woke! British culture from centuries ago would be from white men - things are changing, and for the good , but please , racism goes both ways, let’s not disregard traditions just because they reflect a less diverse age

Peasblossom Thu 25-Mar-21 20:24:24

Worthy of another thread Gannygangan.

My family would agree that BAME is a useless definition except as “people who suffer discrimination because of the prejudices of others”

The same applies to LGBTQ+

Peasblossom Thu 25-Mar-21 20:26:23

I couldn’t be a real Morris dancer because I was female?

Barmeyoldbat Thu 25-Mar-21 20:26:27

Well if we are talking about tradition and white males one tradition I am pleased to see is coming to an end is Fox Hunting, a cruel sport continued with the argument it was tradition. I also agree with whoever said it FMG is a tradition.

Nanna58 Thu 25-Mar-21 20:40:15

I agree ‘ not so Barmy ‘ old bat - but surely we can pick and choose : fox hunting terrible, no thanks , harvest festival, lovely , we can be selective

Callistemon Thu 25-Mar-21 20:42:18

Peasblossom

I couldn’t be a real Morris dancer because I was female?

White male privilege Peasblossom

Although one group I know of has at least one female member now.

JaneJudge Thu 25-Mar-21 20:45:50

Peasblossom

I couldn’t be a real Morris dancer because I was female?

well you wouldn't be able to join the freemasons either unless you were born a man and identified as female

GrannyGravy13 Thu 25-Mar-21 20:51:40

JaneJudge there has been a female only Freemason Lodge for at least over 30 years.

JaneJudge Thu 25-Mar-21 20:53:06

isn't that just wives of freemasons?

JaneJudge Thu 25-Mar-21 20:56:36

I am going to apologise in advance as I have googled and there are 2 women's lodges so you are correct Granny. But I still don't understand the MALE, wives, Female business of it all

Mamardoit Thu 25-Mar-21 21:38:53

Nanna58

God I am sick of people rubbishing British Tradition because it is handed down from ‘ dead white males’ . This same people wouldn’t trash traditions from other cultures, that wouldn’t be woke! British culture from centuries ago would be from white men - things are changing, and for the good , but please , racism goes both ways, let’s not disregard traditions just because they reflect a less diverse age

I agree Nanna58.

If anyone wants an English tradition that welcomes women you need to try church bellringing. Forget the fireworks on NYE (very male) Ring out the old, ring in the new.

I gave up ringing many years ago and might give it another go.

Mamardoit Thu 25-Mar-21 21:48:31

Gannygangan

Just throwing something else out here

BAME is an acronym which doesn't sit well with the people it's describing.

My son in law loathes it.

And I've read a few articles where people are explaining why it's not appreciated

A couple of days ago I was watching Jeremy Vine and the brilliant Nana Akua was saying how much she hated it as well.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53194376

People in my family dislike being referred to as BAME too.

My beautiful DGC (some have pinkish skin some have brown) don't seem to register the different skin tones. Some nasty s*d will point it out no doubt.