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First Britons were black

(81 Posts)
GagaJo Thu 01-Apr-21 06:52:46

Following on from the thread about David Lammy and the racist phone call he dealt with, I found this.

'Original' Brits, where were actually settlers from Continental Europe, and based on the genome of Cheddar man, would have been black. Makes sense, given that all of humanity originated in Africa

So, basically, Black Britons were the originals. Not white skinned.

www.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/07/first-modern-britons-dark-black-skin-cheddar-man-dna-analysis-reveals

NotSpaghetti Thu 01-Apr-21 07:13:54

The evidence as I understand it is that lighter skin mutations developed relatively recently.

A paper I read about maybe five or six years ago explained how pale skin and lactose tolerance developed hand-in-hand (through gene mutation) as early peoples spread into northern Europe. It said this was probably making it possible to get enough vitamins D.

Here's a link to Science Magazine - (I think this is basically saying the same thing) Not sure if it's referencing the exact presentation I read about but it does explain the same info:
www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/04/how-europeans-evolved-white-skin#:~:text=And%20the%20new%20data%20confirm,pale%20skin%20in%20Europeans%20today.

growstuff Thu 01-Apr-21 07:40:41

I'm reading a book called "Who we are and how we got here" by David Reich. His speciality is Ancient DNA and he suggests the same thing, except he thinks that a new wave of people replaced the original darker skinned people. The new wave of people could have come from Sardinia, but a lot of research still needs to be done. People with lighter skin would have survived better than darker skinned people (as you say) because they would have absorbed more Vitamin D. Reich thinks that very few northern Europeans are directly descended from the first settlers.

Alegrias1 Thu 01-Apr-21 08:31:40

I believe there is a living person in the South of England who is a proven descendant of Cheddar Man. Perhaps he should have a word with Jean.

BlueBelle Thu 01-Apr-21 09:00:54

This needs teaching in every school It might shut some of the racists up
It’s been known a long time that the origin of humans was in Africa so it doesn’t take too much of a leap to believe the first Brits were black
Oh I d love to see that English lady s (is lady in context here) face when told she is a by-product 😂😂😂

Franbern Thu 01-Apr-21 09:23:30

Bluebelle Loved your comment, made me giggle. Britain, is completely made up of so many, many immigrant groups. Wave upon wave of such groups over thousands of years.

GagaJo Thu 01-Apr-21 10:16:48

Alegrias1

I believe there is a living person in the South of England who is a proven descendant of Cheddar Man. Perhaps he should have a word with Jean.

This is fascinating. Do you have a link for this? HOW do they know he is a direct descendant of Cheddar Man?

Blossoming Thu 01-Apr-21 10:21:06

There is also evidence of human evolution in Asia. The story is believed to be more complex than was once thought. I wonder when we began to develop the hereditary characteristics such as skin and hair colour?

www.independent.co.uk/news/science/evolution-theory-out-africa-dali-skull-china-homo-erectus-sapiens-latest-a8064306.html

GagaJo Thu 01-Apr-21 10:21:17

I was being lazy, asking for a link. I found one.

Adrian Targett visited the home of a close relative yesterday. He had to put on Wellington boots because the floor is muddy. The relative was not in. Hardly surprising: he died 9,000 years ago.

But there is no doubt: Mr Targett, a 42-year-old history teacher in Cheddar, Somerset, has been shown by DNA tests to be a direct descendant, by his mother's line, of "Cheddar Man", the oldest complete skeleton ever found in Britain, and now also the world's most distant confirmed relative.

His pupils were delighted. "He has never had a nickname ... until now," one 16-year-old said with relish.

www.independent.co.uk/news/family-link-reaches-back-300-generations-cheddar-cave-1271542.html

25Avalon Thu 01-Apr-21 10:22:28

GagoJo he is a white school teacher in Somerset may even be Cheddar whose DNA matched that of bones found in Cheddar. They then reconstructed what Chaddar Man would have looked like. This was all the news a few years back.

Katie59 Thu 01-Apr-21 10:30:02

Not exactly ground breaking news, several human “types” migrated from Africa, they would all have been dark skinned. The different types interbred and the smartest, homo sapiens dominated and has done for 40,000 yrs, lighter skin in colder regions was an advantage so over many generations that evolved. Recent DNA testing shows that ancient human gene types are still present to different extents in separate geographical regions
It would have been easily possible for generations of ancients to migrate to Northern Europe in a few hundred years, lighter skins probably took much longer. Because global travel is now so easy it is likely that skin colour will merge and in a couple of thousand years darker skin will predominate

Oldwoman70 Thu 01-Apr-21 10:36:07

Does it really matter? I long for the day when a persons skin colour is as irrelevant as their shoe size!

Callistemon Thu 01-Apr-21 10:37:56

25Avalon

GagoJo he is a white school teacher in Somerset may even be Cheddar whose DNA matched that of bones found in Cheddar. They then reconstructed what Chaddar Man would have looked like. This was all the news a few years back.

I thought most people knew this?
And seen the reconstruction of early Britons?

Perhaps not!

Another interesting programme:
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00kfqps

Most of those who are European or Asian descent carry Neanderthal DNA too.

Callistemon Thu 01-Apr-21 10:40:56

25Avalon

I look as if I am questioning you but I'm not, it was in response to the information in the OP.

Perhaps many people aren't aware of our ancient history, of course, I'm assuming they are and it is something I've pointed out on here previously.

lemsip Thu 01-Apr-21 10:43:04

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheddar_Man

annodomini Thu 01-Apr-21 10:44:48

There is evidence that some of us have Neanderthal genes. I wonder what Jean would say about that!

Callistemon Thu 01-Apr-21 10:47:05

The hypothesis is that skin colour lightened gradually as peoples travelled further north; this was in order to absorb more Vitamin D from the sun in northern climes.

GagaJo Thu 01-Apr-21 10:47:39

It WAS news to me. Fascinating.

I remember watching on TV, something similarish to Who Do You Think You Are, a black American turned up in the UK, looking for the descendents of one of his relatives who had been taken to the UK as a servant.

The British family were quite unaware they had a black American man as a forebear.

My mum was very dark skinned as a younger woman with black hair. No idea where it came from. Both parents regular pale skinned Brits. Hasn't been handed down to either my brother or me.

Callistemon Thu 01-Apr-21 10:48:15

I wonder what Jean would say about that!

Who is Jean?

GagaJo Thu 01-Apr-21 10:49:57

annodomini

There is evidence that some of us have Neanderthal genes. I wonder what Jean would say about that!

I'm sure I have taught a few of those!

GagaJo Thu 01-Apr-21 10:51:43

Callistemon

^I wonder what Jean would say about that!^

Who is Jean?

Racist caller to a radio show that told David Lammy (MP) he couldn't be English because he was black.

timetogo2016 Thu 01-Apr-21 11:01:37

Ooooh if only Oldwoman70,how wonderfull life would be for all of us.

growstuff Thu 01-Apr-21 11:03:17

Every single one of us has genes which originated in pre-history.

Lilith Thu 01-Apr-21 11:13:58

Thanxxx lots GagaJo... Research/academic evidence is always much appreciated to stop racism, sexism and all the cruel isms which cause many of the 'problems' in societies today... We should know better cos being kind and empathic is key to stable community life... the histories of diasporas clearly shows that humans are a mix-up...Many thanxxx again GagoJo :-)

Callistemon Thu 01-Apr-21 11:27:59

GagaJo

annodomini

There is evidence that some of us have Neanderthal genes. I wonder what Jean would say about that!

I'm sure I have taught a few of those!

And they were not as dumb as they are portrayed to be in films etc! They probably had more language than just grunts.

Anyway, the grunting stage is part of our evolution from child to adult, isn't it? The teenage stage, Grunting Kevin grin