harry and megan

Peasblossom that’s an amazing story. Very illuminating on his character.

maddyone

Well ladies, I did say I didn’t know much about The Duke of Windsor didn’t I? But I have definitely seen pictures of The DofW with Hitler, and so maybe not cosying up, but definitely approval.

BTW, I've read that resulting in bringing Hitler into the conversation is a sign you know you've lost the credibility of your position!

nams my bringing. Hitler into the conversation was a response to the moral bankruptcy of comparing Harry unfavourably with the D of W who chose against advice to visit Germany and spend private time with Hitler - the notes of the meeting were ( so sadly ?) lost. If a poster brings in the wonderful D of W I’ll bring in Hitler - it’s your argument that’s not credible

BTW , I’ve read that resulting in bringing in Hitler into the conversation is a sign you know you’ve lost the credibility of your position.

Haha Namsnanny that’s me done for then

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No namsnanny It was in the thirties at an English country house.

I don’t know whether The DofW was wonderful or otherwise, but he doesn’t come across as a very savoury person, particularly after reading Peasblossom’s post. Thank you for a bit more information about him suzie.

I didn’t mean him to come over as awful. MIL didn’t tell it like that. She thought it was funny and disgusting at the same time. Like most children would?

(Mostly because it was all so proper except for him)

Chestnut

maddyone just as cosying up to Hitler during the last war suggests an unpleasant individual.
I might be wrong, but I don't think the Duke of Windsor 'cosied up' to Hitler during the war did he? A lot of people thought he was a very dynamic, charismatic leader before the war and may have associated with him. It was only later they all saw his true colours.

I don't think cosying up is the right term, maddyone - maintaining cordial relations with Hitler might have been thought to be a good idea and the Windsors thought they were helping. The Prime Minister, Chamberlain, went over, too, in an attempt to appease Hitler.
Appeasement was the British policy in the 1930s.
Generally, I think many wanted to avoid war at all costs.

Read all about M&H repeatedly in DM so this is nothing new. Not really interested any more. Just wish they would get along quietly with their new life in US but can’t see they will, as in their business they need publicity or they have no business.

fannycornforth have you read anything about the British Secret Service building a file on Wallis Simpson?
As I recall she was meeting up with Ribbentrop, either on the sly or with Edward's knowledge. Who knows.
He had already allowed her to read gov papers with secret info.

The consensus the last I read was he was too dense to be a spy, but could have been coerced into being a puppet king should the Nazi win the war.

Callistemon Now that I do know. Appeasement was definitely the policy of the UK in the early/middle thirties.

The D of Windsor was also concerned with the state of working class people and for some the National Socialists offered a solution to the failing German economy which he thought should be applied here. I had a friend whose mother was a Nazi supporter in Germany in 1939. She believed Hitler was the only solution to the economic disaster she feared they would fall into. She'd lived through one at the end of WW1.
It was a terrible regime but the reasons for its success need to be remembered. Especially now.

Regarding D of W I watched a very interesting programme about him and the Duchess a while back which gave me a different view point. Apparently she was content to continue as his mistress rather than as his wife. He came over as very very needy however, and she reluctantly agreed to marry him. Idk how happy they were together but both were isolated from all they previously knew.

Here’s some facts

Duke and Duchess of Windsor's 1937 tour of Germany
Political crisis of 1937
Edward, Duke of Windsor, and Wallis, Duchess of Windsor, visited Nazi Germany in October 1937. Edward had abdicated the British throne in December 1936, and his brother George VI had become king. Edward had been given the title Duke of Windsor and married Wallis Simpson in June 1937. He appeared to have been sympathetic to Germany in this period and, that September, announced his intention to travel privately to Germany to tour factories. His interests, officially into researching the social and economic conditions of the working classes, were against the backdrop of looming war in Europe. The Duke's supporters saw him as a potential peacemaker between Britain and Germany, but the UK Government refused to sanction such a role and was against the tour, suspecting that the Nazis would use the Duke's presence for propaganda. Windsor was keen that his wife—who had been rejected by the British establishment—experience a state visit as his consort. He promised the government to keep a low profile; the tour went ahead between 12 and 23 October 1937.

Contemporary photograph of Hitler kissing the Duchess's hand
The Duke and Duchess of Windsor meeting Adolf Hitler. Hitler treated the Duchess with full royal deference.
The Duke and Duchess, who were officially invited to the country by the German Labour Front, were chaperoned for much of their visit by its leader, Robert Ley. The couple visited factories, many of which were producing materiel for the rearmament effort; the Duke inspected German troops. The Windsors were greeted by the British national anthem and Nazi salutes. They dined with high-ranking Nazis such as Joseph Goebbels, Hermann Göring, Joachim von Ribbentrop, and Albert Speer, as well as having tea with Hitler in Berchtesgaden. The Duke had a long private conversation with Hitler, but it is uncertain what they discussed as the minutes of their meeting were lost in the war. The Duchess took afternoon tea with Hitler's deputy, Rudolf Hess. Hitler was sympathetic to the Windsors and treated the Duchess like royalty.

The UK Government was unable to affect the course of events and forbade its diplomatic staff in Germany from having any high-level interaction with the Duke and Duchess. British popular opinion of the tour was muted, most viewing it as in poor taste and disruptive in the first year of George's reign. The tour of Germany was intended to have been followed by one of the United States, but Nazi repression of working-class activists in Germany led to a wave of disapproval for the Windsors in the American labour movement. This led to the US visit being cancelled. Modern historians tend to consider the 1937 tour as a reflection of both the Duke's lack of judgement and of his disregard for the advice he received.

Thanks SW.

The D of Windsor was only typical of his class and of many government members- people like the Cliveden set. If you are interested (it is a commuist party leaflet but fascinating) mrc.epexio.com/records/MSP/6/11

Lucca

Thanks SW.

Why is it Lucca that people who are so anti- MM and PH don’t want people who post facts to contribute to these threads. Beats me ???

That confirms the view that some hold I think. That he was well-meaning but weak and married a strong, dominant woman. He was anxious that she should be accepted and received with the status he thought she deserved and which had not happened here.
The Nazi regime took advantage of that and welcomed them both, which he welcomed naively without realising the full implications of his actions.

Agree Callistemon ,

Callistemon

That confirms the view that some hold I think. That he was well-meaning but weak and married a strong, dominant woman. He was anxious that she should be accepted and received with the status he thought she deserved and which had not happened here.
The Nazi regime took advantage of that and welcomed them both, which he welcomed naively without realising the full implications of his actions.

??? Thick and entitled more like - thought he knew best. Really just wanted to go to give WS a sort of ‘state’ visit. Nice how his apologists forgive his utter self centredness and stupidity even though it meant him giving a seal of approval to what was already well known to be an evil regime. Or do some of you think Hitler only started bring nasty to Jewish people in 1939?

A weak man married to a dominant woman, she was treated like royalty in Germany

Anniebach

A weak man married to a dominant woman, she was treated like royalty in Germany

Do you still maintain he was a much better person than PH or that there’s nothing to choose between them?

This is what royal family threads are made of. I am learning something new here, thanks.
Eventually as time moves on everything becomes history, just that.
I still think we can be angry with any one of them for the bad way they behaved, however great or small the upset they caused.

Members of the RF don’t have to pass an IQ test to become royals do they - so it’s not surprising many of them aren’t the sharpest tools in the box .

suziewoozie Choose ? One with connections to Hitler, one who betrayed his blood family , both not worth time of day .

May I ask you ? Have you experienced a loved family member
publicly speaking of personal family matters ?