Feeling sorry for men

I dont at all!

They still get away with way too much and are given the benefit of the doubt.

Give me an example of too much.

I think it's about our assessment of risk as well, men are much more at risk of being violently assaulted by men than by being wrongly accused by a woman. We worry about the wrong things often.

It’s not just men but women who have to be careful in certain situations such as helping up and consoling them.

Helping up and consoling children who have fallen over.

Got interrupted by phone call.

Hithere

I dont at all!

They still get away with way too much and are given the benefit of the doubt.

All men ?

I hate pervy, sleazy men, who doesn’t?
But if I’m honest I’ve not come across that many, a few incidents when I was young, and didn’t know how to deal with it, but only one man springs to mind now.
But I do agree with Vampirequeen, I think men have to take great care what they say and do.
A couple of summers ago we were in a park with our grandchildren, a little girl approached my husband, took his hand and asked him to take her over to the kiosk to buy a token for something, I quickly intervened, but he didn’t seem to get it, it’s sad when men can’t do a kindness without looking suspicious.
A friends father in law was accused of touching one of her nieces when he was helping her put on her swimsuit at the beach, of course you never know for certain, but I think it’s extremely unlikely he would have done it on purpose, it caused a massive family rift, and he never really got over it.

*Aye, my heart bleeds for them. Or maybe not. ?
Don't have much sympathy afraid. If anyone doesn't know what is acceptable behaviour these days, there's no excuse*.

alegrias I think that’s harsh not every man is a predator or out to harm women in word or deed in fact the majority aren’t
The goalposts are constantly changing and what is deemed normal words today may be considered sexual tomorrow the example Vampire gives us a perfect example in her opening post What on earth was wrong with telling the lady her muscles were coming on nicely after her workout and hard work, men must be afraid to open their mouths now because of the actions of some
Sexual abuse is NEVER EVER right or acceptable and needs calling out, sexual innuendos can be horrible but now it’s gone out of proportion and I think it’s awful for a decent man to not know what he can safely say or do
I heard of a situation where a little girl fell and the man nearby darent help her up in case he was called a paedo and Dads who won’t bath baby girls Thats so awful for all decent men, who are the majority
And one more thing if you go on any social media you will see girls with mouths like the dustbin using filthy words and highly sexual phrases about both women and about men

It needs to work both ways

I’m wondering are there two different issues here ? Predatory behaviour with potential danger /inappropriate comments

Rapes - he said she said, even with clear proof

The latest case of Josh Duggar - just plain unacceptable

The price of motherhood- fatherhood doesnt have it

Pink tax

I can go on and on - as women we are gaslighted every day

In general, it is not what is said but how it said and the context.

That's a good point Avalon we should all be careful with our interactions with others I hate being touched by people I dont know for example, for some people whether for cultural reasons or from past experiences touch by strangers is not accepted.

I do feel sorry for men - as has been said the majority are not predatory. There has been a study, in Australia I think, about "toxic masculinity", apparently if a man is strong, competitive and self reliant it is a sign of"toxic masculinity". My late DH was all of those things, but was also kind, gentle and protective of anyone weaker than him

I can't agree with Gingsters comment about men being "led on by girls". No matter what a "girl" or woman wears, if she says no - any real man would back off.

Hithere

Rapes - he said she said, even with clear proof

The latest case of Josh Duggar - just plain unacceptable

The price of motherhood- fatherhood doesnt have it

Pink tax

I can go on and on - as women we are gaslighted every day

In general, it is not what is said but how it said and the context.

My OP and subsequent posts make it clear that I am talking about the everyday normal man like my DH. Predatory and abusive behaviour is never acceptable but they are a small minority of man. It's not fair that all men are tarred with the same brush.

There is a whole spectrum of issues here and I think the OP was talking about the innocent things of holding doors open, giving compliments etc. Not the sexual predation.

Regarding giving compliments. I would never tell anyone they had lost weight or that their hair was looking nice unless I knew them well. If I know them well there is no worry in my mind about whether they will misconstrue the comment. If in doubt, say nothing. Nobody is living their life waiting for your compliments, on their weight, hair or anything else. Its just not necessary.

I'll open the door for someone who is carrying something bulky, or struggling with children for instance. That's it, nobody else needs a door opened for them and for someone else to let them through first. I always hold the door if someone is behind me because its rude to let it slam in their face.

I wouldn't touch anybody else's washing or their children. They have nothing to do with me.

Galaxy
I really don’t like being touched by people, men or women really, if I don’t know them well.
My husband had a disgusting sleazy old uncle, who couldn’t keep his hands to himself, my father in law warned me to keep the children away from him, but nobody actually confronted him, or did anything about him, he made my flesh crawl.

sunseeker

I do feel sorry for men - as has been said the majority are not predatory. There has been a study, in Australia I think, about "toxic masculinity", apparently if a man is strong, competitive and self reliant it is a sign of"toxic masculinity". My late DH was all of those things, but was also kind, gentle and protective of anyone weaker than him

I can't agree with Gingsters comment about men being "led on by girls". No matter what a "girl" or woman wears, if she says no - any real man would back off.

Totally agree. Being strong and protective does not make a man an abuser. I am a strong, protective mother. Hurt my girls and I will become a lioness protecting her cubs. I'm not classed as a potential abuser. Just a mother.

Another thing is when you see a little child fall over and hurt themselves. I would no longer automatically help and my husband wouldn’t,either. It’s a sad old world we live in.

“ I can't agree with Gingsters comment about men being "led on by girls". No matter what a "girl" or woman wears, if she says no - any real man would back off.”

Absolutely. That’s a shocking attitude.

I often compliment women I don't know. I've told ladies that I love their multicoloured hair or that their outfits really suit them. No one has ever taken offence. In fact they've been pleased. DH wouldn't dare do that.

Nanna
I wouldn’t leave a child crying or upset, rightly or wrongly, I’d definitely try and comfort them.

With the greatest respect VQ - why do you feel the need to compliment people you don't know, randomly and off the cuff? Maybe its just me, I'd think that was weird! Sorry!

As someone who has lost weight and gained it and lost it again I hate comments about losing weight, I wouldnt say anything but I would think it. People are entitled to their own reactions about things being said to them.

Alegrias1

With the greatest respect VQ - why do you feel the need to compliment people you don't know, randomly and off the cuff? Maybe its just me, I'd think that was weird! Sorry!

Oh I’ve done that too ! And had it done to me. Sometimes someone just looks so good or interestingly dressed that you feel inspired to comment . Maybe I’m weird.....no maybe about it ?

Alegrias1
On the rare occasion a stranger has complimented me on something, I’ve been quite pleased.
Not that it happens often!

Of course I dont paint men under the same brush - men have got away with murder historically

Microagressions are part of daily life and I am glad some men are realizing it and questioning how they communicate and act
Example: "you run like a girl" is derogatory

The extent a woman will have to worry about rejecting a man's suggestions are extremely worrisome - how to do it gracefully without getting him mad, for example
Dont start me about dating - so many men think that a certain number of drinks offered to a woman = sex
When that doesnt happen, he claims to be taken advantage of (rolling my eyes)

It is the first step towards equality - a man opening a door for me means nothing if he acts women are second class citizens
(I open the doors for everybody regardless of age and gender)