Feeling sorry for men

Maybe I'm Villanelle....

Sorry to hijack your post VQ

VQ I totally agree with you. Because there are a percentage of men that treat women appallingly, the rest are just ordinary guys, sons and brothers that respect women. I have seen groups of women on a night out behaving in such a way that's totally embarrassing, they don't hold back when discussing men, ask some of the publicans, many of the girls meet to get ready at someone's house and the shots and drinks flow freely before they even go out. Every comment has to be monitored in the work place in case there's a hidden meaning, it's all got ridiculous. It must be a nightmare plucking up the courage to ask someone out and like walking on eggshells if a comment is taken the wrong way. I like doors to be opened for me, good manners, I open doors for people too. If he was worried about picking up the knickers he should have left them as she should know he was just being helpful, as if there's not been enough to concern us all the last year.

Until other men (the good ones) call out the bad ones for poor attitudes etc, I don't have sympathy with them.

I would confront anyone that was racist, homophobic. Men need to do this as standard with sexist/abusive men. WHEN that happens, things will start to change. When that happens, then I will feel for those being tarred by the same brush.

I agree with ALL that you have posted vampirequeen.
What a sad world we live in.

Gingster, a girl in skimpy clothes behaving provocatively is no an excuse for a man to behave like an animal who is incapable of controlling himself! I completely understand your reasoning , however this long held idea that men are unable to rein in their urges does men a great injustice. There is no excuse for such behaviour. It's on a par with saying a woman must expect to be assaulted if she walks alone at 1 am ! Sadly women are not 'free' to live their lives as they wish. How many women would think twice about walking alone in isolated areas?
I for one !! Why should women's lives be curtailed in this way simply because some men see them as 'asking for it' !!!! It would be lovely to live in a world where we no longer expect women to be assaulted simply because of what they wear , how they behave or because they are alone and easy targets.
To return to the title of this thread , I do feel sorry for men who have to think twice before speaking to a child or showing kindness to a woman . It's a very difficult balance!!!!

Absolutely vamp. Does no one ever look at a mans body then and think ‘oh he’s lost/gained weight ? I completely agree with your OP. It feels like some females seem to actively look for offence.

Polarbear2

Absolutely vamp. Does no one ever look at a mans body then and think ‘oh he’s lost/gained weight ? I completely agree with your OP. It feels like some females seem to actively look for offence.

A person can think what they like. They have no right to comment on a person's appearance, regardless of whether they think it is a compliment or not.

GagaJo

Until other men (the good ones) call out the bad ones for poor attitudes etc, I don't have sympathy with them.

I would confront anyone that was racist, homophobic. Men need to do this as standard with sexist/abusive men. WHEN that happens, things will start to change. When that happens, then I will feel for those being tarred by the same brush.

I’m assuming you apply that to abusive women too?? Have you ever been in a female dominated office when a young man walks in? The only men who survived unscathed were geeks who the women found unattractive. I’d amend your statement that ALL abuse should be called out.

Too many people seem to look for things to be offended by. If a man holds a door open for me, I thank him and walk on. I don't assume he thinks of me as an inferior - in fact he probably doesn't think about me at all.

GagaJo Many men do confront people making those remarks. True, not all men but then not all women do either.

Really??? Wow. That’s very sad when you can’t compliment someone. I wouldn’t feel uncomfortable at all! Am astonished.

Polarbear2

Absolutely vamp. Does no one ever look at a mans body then and think ‘oh he’s lost/gained weight ? I completely agree with your OP. It feels like some females seem to actively look for offence.

They can think what they like. They don't have to say it.

Someone I know was told they lost weight as a compliment. They weren't even big to begin with. This person had social anxiety and was so happy with the compliment that they decided to lose more weight. More compliments, more feeling of acceptance and positive regard. They died from an eating disorder. Yes, it really was that simple.

Polarbear2

Really??? Wow. That’s very sad when you can’t compliment someone. I wouldn’t feel uncomfortable at all! Am astonished.

I don't see it as a compliment. If you want to complement me, compliment me on something I have done well, a good personal quality or clever thinking. Don't compliment me about my body or physical appearance. It's not that important and I don't like to be measured that way.

I agree vampirequeen. It is very wrong to assume that all men are sexual predators. Most men are decent, kind people. It is so confusing for men these days and a simple, innocent comment can easily be misconstrued perhaps deliberately?

With regard to the TV presenter and his penis, is he a contortionist? He lays it on their shoulder?

What I hate is innuendo, having suffered from it for years from my ex-husband and father -in-law. No amount of challenging, objecting, ignoring made any difference; they both thought they were God's gift to women when in reality they were deeply embarrassing. My mother -in-law dismissed is naughty schoolboy behaviour; it wasn't and I still find it hard to understand women who condone it in their husbands.

Gagajo's and cafeaulait's comments in page 3- fully agree

Would the personal trainer have commented to a man that his muscles were developing nicely?
If not, why not?

Which muscles was he referring to, anyway?
Perhaps they were ones close to her breasts, for instance.
Or perhaps he said it in a tone he wouldn't use to a man.

We don't know enough about that incident to be sure it was an innocent comment but it's nice for the guy that he can get sympathy from some of his lady clients.

People will often act as you treat them. If you treat them with kindness they will act in a kind way if you treat them unkindly they will become unkind, if you treat them as a sexual predator then they will become a sexual predator.

Does not always follow and loads of exceptions but you should always assume that a person is kind and thoughtful untill proven otherwise. Assuming that someone is a sexual predator just because they are male just causes resentment and leads to more problems.

The comment about the muscles and physical trainer - I agree w/o more context, it doesnt raise red flags to me.

If they had been working hard on training, it was a compliment for the good job done

I suspect a personal trainer would tell a man his muscles were developing nicely. That's an observation and an encouragement in a professional role, surely? Then again, it can depend how it was said and whether there are other things that made the woman wary of this guy. In general, I wouldn't have a problem with a personal trainer making observations on how the training was working for me.

vampirequeen exactly! I agree with everything you said. My DH has said similar, not even sure about holding the door and such likes nowadays!

I'm another one who agrees with you, vampirequeen.
I've thought along these lines for ages now.

"People will often act as you treat them. If you treat them with kindness they will act in a kind way if you treat them unkindly they will become unkind, if you treat them as a sexual predator then they will become a sexual predator."

You are kidding right? Treating someone like a predator surely says, "back off this person, they don't feel comfortable me with close." I don't think anyone becomes a predator because of how they are treated. They either are or they aren't.

If someone is unkind to me, I just back off and go where I am welcome. I don't be unkind back.

I hold the door for whoever is behind me, male or female.

If you treat someone as a sexual predator they will become a sexual predator . What??? You do understand what that message says to every person who has experienced sexual assault.

So the compliment thing.. can I say you look well?? Can I not say anything nice to anyone? Genuinely both astonished and interested.