Parents of 4-year old transgender child - This Morning interview.

Hithere, the situations are only the same in that you mention the need to ‘raise awareness’ that they are not the only ones. The difference, since you don’t see it, is that the adults have the choice.
What if a child changes it’s mind, or equally, doesn’t change its mind when it is older? It may still not want its personal life having been made public without its consent.
The parents’ publicity stunt is quite likely to be reiterated to endorse or contradict the subject under discussion.
The child as a vulnerable teen (almost all early teens are self-conscious and vulnerable in some way), may live to regret his parents’ action. He wasn’t given the right to choose. If you don’t see that, then you don’t see it.

Galaxy

You think its pathetic because you cant answer it trisher. Or you can only answer it with regressive sexist stereotypes.

It isn't "regressive sexist stereotypes`' to actually acknowledge what happens in real life. I do know the difference though between living as a different gender from the one assigned to you at birth, and dressing up.
I seldom bring my family into this but one of my DSs loved dressing up and acting. He often wore a dress and even had classmates who copied him. At no time did he live or identify as a girl. So I think I can tell the difference. Some people can't and because it is a difficult subject to deal with choose to accuse others of attitudes they certainly don't possess. Acknowledging the existance of gender stereotypes is not agreeing with or promoting them.
As far as the mother goes I remember when the mothers of gay men were told they caused their homosexuality because they were too controlling. Blaming the mother for a transgender child now seems the norm.

Mollygo,

Just because I dont see it the same way you do, it doesnt mean I dont see it.
Very condescending message.

Hithere

Mollygo,

Just because I dont see it the same way you do, it doesnt mean I dont see it.
Very condescending message.

Oh d**n! I meant it to be sarcastic not condescending. I still think they didn’t think about the future impact on their child.

Callistemon

If this was an 18 year old adult raising awareness then it would be different.

This is a 4 year old child being paraded on national television by the parents.
Awareness can be raised about the subject without using a child as an example, a young child who cannot give consent.

Totally agree

I am not blaming anyone. I wont talk about individual children because I think that's completely intrusive and inappropriate.
The phrases you use around dressing and activities are not allowed to be used in schools because they are considered sexist. There has been recent guidance given to school to avoid this.

Mollygo

Sorry I missed the sarcasm!

Kali2

But s/he is FOUR years old. So don't try and change things, but don't enforce this forever either. Give the child time and support- not such 'encouragement and support' which will make it impossible to ever not...

Good post.

Let them be.
Encouraging is as bad as enforcing social stereotypes.

Blaming the mother for a transgender child now seems the norm.

I have seen no evidence that this is true.

I would blame a mother who uses an innocent child to prove a point as publicity-seeking (disguised as raising awareness) on national television.

I thought everyone was very clear about the difference between gender and sex, particularly on this thread. a persons sex is their biological identity. Gender defimes which 'social construct' they identify with.

These constructs are constantly changing. The social construct of being male or female 100 years ago or more was far more rigid than it is now. men were expected to be in charge exercise authority provide for his wife and family. His place was in the world. A woman's place was in the home, the classic 3 ks of the Germans, Kinder, Kerke, Kuche,(children, church and cooking)

Social constructs of gender have changed over the years women work, have careers, share the 3 Ks. I can well see a future where social constructs of gender gradually fade away and, male or femail, you can live, dress, act anyway you like without being labelled as anyone other than yourself. The only limitations, will be those posed by biology.

The phrases you use around dressing and activities are not allowed to be used in schools because they are considered sexist. There has been recent guidance given to school to avoid this.
That's inteesting Galaxyhowever I still notice that my GCs school has a specific uniform for girls wich includes a cardigan and one for boys which includes a tie. Quite how that is managed without using the terms I've used I don't know and I've just checked a coupleof schools'websites ,on both the uniform is listed under "Girls" and "Boys"

Indeed trisher a unisex uniform, in every school, would be a huge improvement in the situation.

Trisher, out of interest, I’ve just done the same search re uniforms and found the distinction still exists even in primary schools.
I also found that even when school websites like that of my DGD list the uniform simply as school uniform, the uniform suppliers for those schools refer to ‘day uniform for boy’ and ‘day uniform for girl’ and the same for sports kit. Should schools be able to stipulate to uniform shops how their products are listed?

I absolutely agree that it would better if there was a unisex uniform, that doesn't seem to be happening though.

Indeed unisex would be preferable. The point I was making is that teaching with relation to transgender issues that references clothing activities etc is not used. It was but then guidance was changed to avoid sexist stereotypes relating to clothes etc. I would challenge schools who for example decide that trousers are only for boys in the same way I am challenging the phrase dresses as a boy.

I'm certain that a four year old has absolutely no innate sense of gender. It's all imposed by us adults, with our ridiculous obsession of treating and dressing them differently - to an extreme.

Even when we treat them (as we should) as just children, gender irrelevant - they are influenced by their little friends.

In the same way, my fourth child (a girl) suddenly, aged six, went on a diet, convinced that she was 'too fat'. Her teacher said it was popular with the other girls, influenced by their mothers.

You should challenge them trisher most of the progressive schools are now realising saying certain sexes wear certain clothes is reliant on stereotypes. Why on earth would boys have to wear a tie and girls wouldnt, its nonsensical.

Of course, uniform should be 'genderless' (and practical, non-iron, too please) e.g. polo shirt, shorts and tracksuit - then ideal to be passed down to the next child. Even my granddaughter's polo shirts are a special girls version, it's ridiculous!

If we agree that school uniform should be same for both genders why do we assume it is trousers of some sort, shouldn't children have the option of trousers or a skirt? It appears acceptable for all pupils to wear trousers but not skirts!?

Galaxy

You should challenge them trisher most of the progressive schools are now realising saying certain sexes wear certain clothes is reliant on stereotypes. Why on earth would boys have to wear a tie and girls wouldnt, its nonsensical.

They're not my children Galaxy if they were I might. Many years ago my DS wore a skirt (kindly lent by a girl) to go into school. He was carpeted by the Head for it, she never informed me, possibly because she knew I would say boys should be allowed skirts just as girls were trousers. He told me about it ages afterwards.
I actually think there are more differences and gender specific uniform requirements now than there were years ago

Shelflife, I think that girls shouldn't have to be limited/restricted by wearing skirts. They are, at some point, inevitably, told to move and sit in a certain way to avoid showing their underwear. Again, it's ridiculous.

Yes that's part of the problem. Not just uniforms, but toys etc. Its awful and so damaging for both boys and girls. I think in terms of trousers/skirts that trousers seem the sensible option for everyone but then I dont particularly want to impose that on the girls and boys who want to wear skirts.

A school I am involved with just had an issue where the male staff challenged the discrepancy between guidelines for male and female clothing (for staff) they were successful.

I do agree that the best option is trousers for everyone. Girls are restricted by wearing skirts/ dresses. Not displaying underwear is important! I was thinking of the equality issue.
One of my many unhappy memories of senior school was having to play hockey in navy blue knickers outside!
Apart from the indignity it was freezing in the north of England in winter. The boys played football in shorts , our PE teacher wore a track suit! That experience still haunts me !!!!!

Shelflife, some girls don’t want to wear trousers and there would be an immediate outcry about equality issues if they were forced to wear ‘boys’ clothes, even if they spend their free time in jeans.
Some schools suggest divided skirts as part if the uniform as a way round this.