Seems we are not unlocking.

maddyone^
Government policy is absolutely not being driven by the fact that some people have families who have moved abroad. Why on Earth would anyone make such a ridiculous comment?

maddyone I have no idea why anyone would make such a ridiculous comment but even more I have no idea why you are getting hysterical about anyone making such a ridiculous comment as no one actually made such a ridiculous comment

EXCEPT YOU!

I am in favour of a few weeks delay in the final stage of the road map to give more people time to be vaccinated, it seems fair to me that I wait a bit longer even though I have been vaccinated. My adult children are still waiting their second jabs as are many younger people.

Pippa
Hysterical

From GG13's post:

In the last seven days less than 100 people have died within 28 days of a positive Covid test.

But deaths aren't the only hazard, are they? There is Long Covid to consider, which is debilitating and can be life changing. Are people prepared to allow this to spread unchecked?

We will never reach zero Covid, today nor in four weeks time.

Agreed; but we can try to slow the increase. According to the government figures the R rate is over 1. This means that cases (which are very much on the increase) will increase exponentially with a rise in deaths and Long Covid.

Deaths, although still low, are on the increase. They include unvaccinated younger people and people who have only had the first vaccination.

In the last seven days thousands have died of cancer, stroke, heart failure etc…

We don't know if these deaths have been exacerbated by the NHS being at full stretch or whether they are within the 'normal' range. If people have evidence that they are abnormally high, please share it.

If the NHS gets snowed under with covid cases they still won't be able to cover their 'normal' workload.

The vulnerable have all been vaccinated.

But cases are rising among the unvaccinated. A 4 week delay gives an opportunity to vaccinate far more of the adult population; the younger ones who are vulnerable to catching covid. There is a very worrying rise in cases among school age children. It's not surprising as they have been told they can discontinue mask wearing and the delta variant is more highly transmissable. 40 - 60% more are the figures I have seen.

These lockdowns will carry on in perpetuity at this rate.

Well, they will if people decide to ignore them... Which I suspect is what is going to happen.

Businesses are on their last legs, people’s livelihoods are in real danger of collapsing.

They'll collapse altogether if covid cases continue to rise and stop people working or spending. The government will have to continue to offer financial support. It's really not costing them anything as the greater part of the money they have put into the economy has been raised by QE, not 'borrowed' from anyone, just issued by the Bank of England.

What is preferable? A paper deficit or a collapse of the economy if cases continue to accelerate?

I am happy to be challenged on this. I'm just summarising what I have understood from reading what many experts are saying. I might be following the wrong experts...

Alegrias
I agree about the masks. It was indeed thought they wouldn’t help, but it was then thought they might help (am I being cynical if we were told they wouldn’t help because there was an insufficient supply of them? Moi ? ) Anyway I wear my mask in the car sometimes, if I’ve been to the shop and then go to visit my elderly mother, where I need to wear a mask in the public areas of her sheltered apartment, I then leave my mask on. I also have no objection whatsoever to wearing a mask for as long as it takes, because it might be useful. Fair enough.

Good post Maizie.
I’m quite happy for another month or six weeks of the restrictions that are in place now, because they are not so very much. We can get on with our normal lives pretty much as usual.
I do worry about businesses, that’s my main concern. I don’t own a business, I’m lucky enough to be retired, but I’m concerned for them anyway.

I wear a mask when I transport my vulnerable daughter too as we live in separate households. It's part of the risk assessment by her care provider. Honestly though, I found it so difficult to drive in a mask to begin with even harder with mask AND sunglasses, it's like some sort of torture

Daily UK heart disease deaths, last 7 days data

Monday 462, Tuesday 503, Wednesday 465, Thursday 498, Friday 451, Saturday 472, Sunday 512.

Daily UK 'with Covid' deaths for last 7 days

Monday - 4, Tuesday - 8, Wednesday - 8, Thursday - 7, Friday - 4, Saturday - 6, Sunday - 4.

JaneJudge I bought a special cloth that you rub on your glasses/sunglasses that prevents them from steaming up. I got it from Amazon.

Just remind me of how many people in Australia have died from covid please?

Through locking down and restricting travel, quarantining those returning, the rate in Australia has been low compared to other countries.
However, what worries me, Maybee, is what will happen when the world opens up again, Australia is being very slow with their vaccination programme and Covid is still around.

I am very concerned about that.

Sarnia

GrannyGravy13

It’s double standards PippaZ sportsmen/women, actors, politicians and now sports fans are apparently given the green card for travel, but the general public no!!

I completely agree with you. Football, the Olympics and Ascot, to name just 3 events could have waited another year. The general public have all, to some degree, had to make sacrifices during this pandemic. The rules and guidelines should apply to everyone no matter who they are. If this state of affairs is allowed to continue, people will start to ignore the rules and who could blame them?

I've just seen some photos from the Cornwall smugfest. I had no idea that it got so intimate, with all of them crammed close to each other with no masks on. Official photos demonstrate social distancing - but other than that? No

As someone (Australian) asked on another social media site, accompanied by photos of the G7 - "Is the pandemic over now, then?"

*PippaZ*...I did not once mention government...

Urmstongran

Daily UK heart disease deaths, last 7 days data

Monday 462, Tuesday 503, Wednesday 465, Thursday 498, Friday 451, Saturday 472, Sunday 512.

Daily UK 'with Covid' deaths for last 7 days

Monday - 4, Tuesday - 8, Wednesday - 8, Thursday - 7, Friday - 4, Saturday - 6, Sunday - 4.

At the risk of repeating myself....

In a 7 day period last September (8th to 14th) 83 people died with 28 days of a positive test. Quoting weekly death figures is irrelevant, unless we are taking into account the ratio between deaths and cases, which is what they are doing. So far, no complete evidence that the link is broken, so we wait.

Plus your data doesn't match the government site. Do you have a secret source?

Biscuitmuncher

Urmstrongran it amazes me how people stick to the rules that make absolutely no sense. Everyone seems to forget that we were told masks serve no purpose and now you see people on their own in cars wearing them!

Who told us masks serve no purpose ?? Someone on Facebook ?

Callistemon

^Just remind me of how many people in Australia have died from covid please?^

Through locking down and restricting travel, quarantining those returning, the rate in Australia has been low compared to other countries.
However, what worries me, Maybee, is what will happen when the world opens up again, Australia is being very slow with their vaccination programme and Covid is still around.

I am very concerned about that.

Yes. Me too. They really do need to get the whole country vaccinated before they open up. The virus thrives on complacency. What I had forgotten about, and this is going back to a knee injury I had a few years ago, is how advanced Australia are in things such as sports injuries, skin cancers etc. They’ve done so well with covid I’d hate it to all go wrong for them.

“ My point was that if you can't see your children (in my case because of shielding) it doesn't matter if they are next door - you are still not seeing them. ”. Of course but you know that you will be able to see them as soon as restrictions are lifted, with relative ease as opposed to an expensive 24 hour flight!!

Callistemon

^Just remind me of how many people in Australia have died from covid please?^

Through locking down and restricting travel, quarantining those returning, the rate in Australia has been low compared to other countries.
However, what worries me, Maybee, is what will happen when the world opens up again, Australia is being very slow with their vaccination programme and Covid is still around.

I am very concerned about that.

Are they being slow with the vaccinations Callistemon?

I admit to not knowing apart from the fact that my son aged 42 had his first jab a few weeks ago

They're not doing so well with the vaccination programme as far as I know and I had heard that there is a lot of reluctance too, possibly due to the production of the vaccine that they were developing having to be halted.

It's all very well people saying that we must wait for a couple of years, stop being impatient to see family, but not everyone is fit and well and ill health or a sudden death in the family does remind us all that we don't know what is round the corner for any of us.

Just as well, perhaps.

I suspect that those who advocate patience probably don’t have beloved family abroad. Many on this site have already waited for the best part of a year and a half, and have no end in sight. I really feel for those Gransnetters. I’m lucky because my daughter only left a month ago, so we were able to see them when allowed over the past year and a half. In addition they moved in with us for two months prior to their departure after they had sold their house. Some Gransnetters have had grandchildren born abroad that they’ve never been able to meet, and are already over a year old. Sadly some are called selfish because they would like to be able to go to see their family. They are not selfish, they are loving parents and grandparents who are following the law but eager to be able to see their family. And no, it is not the same as not seeing your children who live next door and choosing to not even see them over the garden fence. That’s a choice, not being able to travel to Australia, Africa, or Canada isn’t a choice, it’s a necessity.

Callistemon
A site named Our World in Data (found through Mr Google) claims Australia has fully vaccinated 2.7% of its population. I can’t vouch for this site’s reliability. It claims the UK has fully vaccinated 44.7% of its population. I thought it was higher than this actually but I may be wrong and this may be correct.

The government’s own site says 56.6 are fully vaccinated in the UK. I’d have thought that was more likely to be correct, so not sure about Australia now.

The 56.6% is a proportion of the adult population, and is equivalent to 44.7% of the whole population. Our World in Data is a reliable site.

Thank you Maddyone.

maddyone

Pippa
Hysterical

Perhaps you aren't. However, you totally misrepresented something that was said and then attacked the person for saying what they hadn't said.

I can think of other reasons why you might have done this but I assure you they would be less polite.

Callistemon

Sarnia

GrannyGravy13

It’s double standards PippaZ sportsmen/women, actors, politicians and now sports fans are apparently given the green card for travel, but the general public no!!

I completely agree with you. Football, the Olympics and Ascot, to name just 3 events could have waited another year. The general public have all, to some degree, had to make sacrifices during this pandemic. The rules and guidelines should apply to everyone no matter who they are. If this state of affairs is allowed to continue, people will start to ignore the rules and who could blame them?

I've just seen some photos from the Cornwall smugfest. I had no idea that it got so intimate, with all of them crammed close to each other with no masks on. Official photos demonstrate social distancing - but other than that? No

As someone (Australian) asked on another social media site, accompanied by photos of the G7 - "Is the pandemic over now, then?"

I'm not saying they were not too close - I don't know - but how do you tell from a photo?