Seems we are not unlocking.

Just a conversation I overheard in the bar, not a friend, but it’s interesting hearing other people’s mental capacity on this pandemic. What gets one person through it obviously doesn’t suit another.

I think the government are starting to be concerned about compliance now.

GrannyGravy13

Callistemon

Football?
Haven’t we been told before GrannyGravy that football is not a matter of life or death - it’s much more important than that!

Yes, we were and after this afternoon even more thought-provoking.

I sincerely hope that the Danish footballer pulls through.

Our darling nephew collapsed during a football match he was playing in, there was no defibrillator available, he died on the pitch leaving a wife and two children.

My eldest son's friend died during a football match. Just dropped where he stood. He was only 14. His poor mother never got over the shock.

GrannyGravy13

It’s double standards PippaZ sportsmen/women, actors, politicians and now sports fans are apparently given the green card for travel, but the general public no!!

I completely agree with you. Football, the Olympics and Ascot, to name just 3 events could have waited another year. The general public have all, to some degree, had to make sacrifices during this pandemic. The rules and guidelines should apply to everyone no matter who they are. If this state of affairs is allowed to continue, people will start to ignore the rules and who could blame them?

Urmstongran

Just a conversation I overheard in the bar, not a friend, but it’s interesting hearing other people’s mental capacity on this pandemic. What gets one person through it obviously doesn’t suit another.

I think the government are starting to be concerned about compliance now.

They will be if they read some of these posts. I agree re: varied mental capacity and I am sure the government are well aware that there are quite large degrees of difference in people when it comes to the ability to make a decision and - more importantly - understand the consequences of that decision.

The second part of that seems to be missing for some when you hear what they expect. We all know small children often cannot delay gratification and that there is a marked correlation between intelligence and the ability to understand the greater rewards from delayed gratification but I did think the government were dealing with reasonably intelligent adults who either have the mental capacity or have someone caring for them who does.

I don’t mind the restrictions that are still in place continuing for another month, but I do think we need to get back to normal after that. Another month would give more time for more people to be fully vaccinated to help curb the spread. We have to remember that the vast majority of people testing positive are younger and will have no lasting problems from getting Covid. Hospitals are not overwhelmed and seem unlikely to be so. Most of the patients have not yet been fully vaccinated. The 7% who are fully vaccinated apparently had other comorbidities (according to a poster on Gransnet yesterday when I queried the health of that small number of people.)

At the moment I can do most of the things I want to do. I can meet my family indoors, I can join a group of up to 30 outdoors (although I haven’t yet) I can go to a restaurant and eat indoors, I went to the cinema in half term with my little grandson and I went to a hotel in London for afternoon tea a couple of days ago, travelling there by train and tube. We’ve booked to go to a Greek Island in September and short of it being made illegal to travel we will go (I’ve booked fairly isolated self catering accommodation, and Greece have said all Greek Island inhabitants will be vaccinated by next month.) I’m getting on with my life. I can’t yet go to the theatre, a concert, a festival (I wouldn’t want to anyway) or fly to New Zealand to see my beloved girl and family, but hopefully all that will come with time. I will not lock myself away for ever, but I will wear my mask, sanitise regularly, and avoid where possible very large crowds. We also sadly will not visit my husband’s elderly parents who live in the north west (we’re on the south coast.)

Pippa I’m sorry you are so afraid that you’re reimposing restrictions on your life yourself, but if that helps you to cope it seems sensible. The rest of us must do what we regard as safe for us. I had serious Covid earlier this year and the one thing it showed me is that life is to be lived. I’m happy as things are, but will be even happier when things get back to normal, if for no one else, at least for our poor businesses. We will definitely lose a lot if there are few businesses left to provide all the things we love to do.

I wouldn’t mind so much but everymodel SAGE have produced have been miles away from the actual reality. The only thing of truth to come out of this pandemic is that the NHS is unfit for purpose.

I completely agree with your comment about the NHS Urms

A radical overhaul is long overdue and it’s not just a case of throwing yet more billions at it.
Successive governments of every persuasion have done that yet still it struggles.

maddyone very measured thoughtful post glad you are getting on with life

maddyone Sun 13-Jun-21 09:31:17
Pippa I’m sorry you are so afraid that you’re reimposing restrictions on your life yourself, but if that helps you to cope it seems sensible.

I don't think I am maddyone. I don't find going into supermarkets brings me any exceptional joy at the best of times and I have always used a mix of delivery and do-it-yourself shopping.

My problem is with those who have such a terrible need to do things that they don't seem to care if it's safe or not; it's very infantile as far as I can see. If you can go on a holiday abroad because we know it's safe - lovely. But when did that become a requirement of a good life? Equally, when did going out to eat become a necessity - it's a treat but we can live well without it, especially in the summer with the ability to bar-b-que, etc. I do worry for those running the businesses but that is completely different to my feelings about the foot stampers amongst us.

Urmstongran

I wouldn’t mind so much but everymodel SAGE have produced have been miles away from the actual reality. The only thing of truth to come out of this pandemic is that the NHS is unfit for purpose.

Where on earth is the proof of the extreme view?

I hope the people slagging off the not fit for purpose NHS weren’t outside clapping for them last year.

It’s not so much ‘slagging off’ as you call it, more being aware of its shortcomings.

As we all know some staff are excellent, others not so.

So it’s the staff that are at fault?

Unbelievable.

Reports have stated that covid-19 showed that the organisation of the NHS in England is not fit for purpose.

Here is one:
www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m3922
It does not mean that the staff are -not fit for purpose and I don't think anyone has said that.
Being short-staffed before the pandemic arrived meant it was struggling anyway.

There will always be a few in any organisation, especially one as huge as the NHS with its 1.5 million staff, who are not up to the standard of excellence of most and to deny that or to twist what posters have said is not helpful.

One of my close family members is a GP and obviously did their training in a hospital etc. Their opinion was that there is not enough employment of people onto the junior DR/graduate scheme anymore and also they need to nationalise (I don't mean in a political sense) the IT/computer systems in place so that all hospitals/surgeries etc go onto a centralised/same access system instead of it all being so clunky

This post may not be useful

apparently those leaving university with a biomed/MA onto a NHS scheme is much lower too, which causes diversity issues. 200 odd used to be accepted, now it's about 30 or something. I was listening to Deborah Bowman, might have been a few years ago now regarding this

What I find shocking is the number of older people who have had both vaccinations and now think that the world should open up for them. I think the figure is 54% of adults who have had both jabs, which obviously leaves 46% of the adult population unprotected. Many of these are the people who have worked, home-schooled and curtailed what are supposed to be the best years of their lives to protect those who are now willing to abandon them on the grounds that younger people are less likely to die.

The selfishness, frankly, is breathtaking.

Someone I speak to on another forum had covid: thankfully quite mildly. He then had his vaccinations and immediately started calling for everything to open up. I couldn’t be bothered to say anything to him. I can’t help but feel that, with the vaccination roll out being so successful people are forgetting how awful long covid can be. I only found out the other day that my cousins son has long covid: pretty awful for her especially as his brother died from a heart attack at quite a young age.

Doodledog I think there is probably a fair balance of ages that want life to return to normal
The young I know do not worry too much about Covid they know age is on their side and although it does happen they have much less risk from serious illness
The idea was to vaccinate the vunerable top groups this has largely been done
My children although they are 33 and 36 are fully vaccinated

rosie1959 do the young you know know anybody who’s got long covid? If so I’m really surprised that they’d be quite so sanguine about being young keeping them safe, as youth doesn’t protect them from the effects. My children are younger than yours, they have both had their first vaccine and certainly aren’t keen to return to normal until they and everybody else is fully protected. Their friends are also of that mindset.

rosie1959

Doodledog I think there is probably a fair balance of ages that want life to return to normal
The young I know do not worry too much about Covid they know age is on their side and although it does happen they have much less risk from serious illness
The idea was to vaccinate the vunerable top groups this has largely been done
My children although they are 33 and 36 are fully vaccinated

My children haven't had both yet. Perhaps that explains the difference in outlook?

They, and others their age, have worked throughout the pandemic, and have done so cheerfully, in order to protect oldies. My mum, who is in her 80s, however, can't understand why, as someone who was vaccinated in the first week of the rollout, she can't travel abroad and go to public performances again. I have explained that she could still carry the virus, or pass it from A to B, but she thinks it would be unreasonable of young people to resent vaccine passports being issued when they haven't had the chance of a second one yet. The idea that 'we are all in this together' was great when it was benefitting the older generation, but now that they are protected it has gone out of the window.

Long Covid is a horrible condition, and as far as we know it could be lifelong. I think that out of respect for young generations we should wait until they have all been offered their second jabs before opening up more fully.

Carson I can only tell you what I have experienced
I dont obviously know all their personal experiences only my childrens No we dont know anyone with long Covid Infact I only know one person that has has Covid
It is all irrelevant as things will only open up when they are allowed to.

Doodledog I have just checked the government statistics. 80% of the population have had the first jab and 57% the second and both figures are rising fast. I believe all adults over school age will have been offered the vaccine by the end of July and secondary school children will be vaccinated during the school holidays.

Things are a lot better than you suggest.

If everyone will have been vaccinated by the end of July, why not wait until then to open up? It's not that long to wait.