The National Trust - is it losing ours?

FannyCornforth

The Enclosure Acts seemed to take up a large proportion of GCSE History when I did it.

GCSE, wow, you must be a very young grany!

The story of the Enclosures, the link to Capability Brown, the heavy involvement of the Church, and so many aspects, is very complicated indeed.

Just because you were taught this history of the Enclosures, does not necessarily mean you were taught all aspects. Which brings back my earlier point 'which history' and 'which part/s'?

So glad one of my foreign students did his PhD on the Enclosures, and asked me to take him to many of the lost villages in our area. He asked me to help him with his final copy, and I learnt so many new aspects of this period. It was him that made the link between the enclosures and Capability Brown, as I took him to some of his best parks.

What is the point of denying that history was, and still is to some extent, seen from the pov of the winner rather than the loser- with a very deliberate slant which it is essential to correct with time.

So, forcing voluntary staff to dress up = wrong. Making a link between the past and modern society and culture, totally appropriate.

I think it’s Katherine Howard that flits along the long gallery.

Callistemon

^Talking of dressing up, it was Hampton Court, not a NT property^

I'm sure I saw Jane Seymour flitting along the long corridor there, Witzend!

I immediately thought of the actress and thought "Why would she be flitting along the long corridor." Then the penny dropped. Although maybe they could do a James Bond retrospective with his leading ladies.

Yes, but the point of the discussion is not that they havedecided this, end of, but why and is it the right path for this particular organisation.

It is not just their volunteers who may have an interest in the new pc trends of the NT, their members and other visitors may be wondering if those now in charge are following the original ethos of the National Trust and are these the right decisions or not.

Fair enough Katie59

As I said above, my DH was asked to dress in a way that didn't match the spirit of the property he was guiding in. All the other guides thought the same. All of them left, the house is now closed. No income any more.

Sometimes it pays to listen to your staff.

End of.

It’s simple, when you are involved with any company or organization you play by their rules, it doesn’t matter if you are a volunteer or an employee. They will ask you do dress and behave in a certain way, in the case of NT they will have considered all options and decided on this course.

End of.

toscalily

Callistemon, I assumed Maws "alone" was autocorrected, I found it amusing and made a reply. I didn't really expect a history lesson on an ancient TV program .

Cheer up!
It was supposed to be amusing.

Little known facts:
The Lone Ranger (or alone Ranger if anyone prefers) was a radio series from 1933
The TV series started in 1949

Not a lot of people know that.

toscalily

Callistemon, I assumed Maws "alone" was autocorrected, I found it amusing and made a reply. I didn't really expect a history lesson on an ancient TV program .

21st century predictive text has not heard of the Lone Ranger

I thought this would have made the contribution by autocorrect clear, but on reflection he and Tonto would have made a lovely couple. !

Great posts maddyone and peasblossom

If we're expecting lots of overseas visitors to NT properties this year I think I'll stay away.

Covid?
I don't think face glitter is a good preventative.

Perhaps one reason for the promoting of LGBTQ rights and Pride month is because some NT properties attract overseas visitors from countries where homosexuality is still a crime and unacceptable.

I see what you're getting at trisher but it seems a bit of a stretch! And even if it's the case, i honestly can't see how a saunter around some ancient British pile, following a guide in a rainbow lanyard and a bit of face glitter is going to have any meaningful impact. But maybe I suppose.....

Ps that was before any guides dressed up ........

Talking of dressing up, it was Hampton Court, not a NT property

I'm sure I saw Jane Seymour flitting along the long corridor there, Witzend!

Perhaps one reason for the promoting of LGBTQ rights and Pride month is because some NT properties attract overseas visitors from countries where homosexuality is still a crime and unacceptable. Perhaps also there are staff members who wish to see Pride month celebrated in the organisation they work for. If the way they choose to do it is unacceptable to some gay people that's not a reason not to do it. I dislike red poppies particularly since the BL's involvement with BAE systems but I have no objection to others wearing them or them being used in Heritage settings.

Well said Peaslosson and Chewbacca.
My son and his husband don’t dress up at all either, or wear glitter or face paint. Unless you count the flowing gown and wig my son wears when he’s in the High Court or The Royal Courts of Justice as it should really be known. He’s a barrister. And unless you count the various costumes his partner wears on occasion, usually just normal clothing though. He’s an actor.
Their son wears his school uniform, no glitter or face paint though.

The 2 middle aged gay men who live across the road from me would rather have pins in the eyes than been seen at a gay pride rally, wear anything with glitter or a rainbow on it. Their stance is that their sexuality doesn't define who they are. They are just 2 people who happen love each other and want to spend their lives together. They don't want special days or events to mark them out as different. They want to blend in with the rest of society, just as we all do.

And do they go around every day in face paint and glitter, maddyone? Apparently that’s what gays do.?

I bet they don’t. Neither does my son and his husband.

I wish someone could tell me why they think telling people in their organisation to dress up in rainbow colours and paint their faces, is supporting the ethos of Pride.

I’m horrified at the lack of understanding and the stereotyping from the NT.

I support Pride by treating my gay son and his partner, and our grandson, their (adopted) son, in exactly the same way I treat my other children and grandchildren. I don’t need to demonstrate to the world and his wife because my love for my son and his son bears out my support. They’re my family and I love them.

Talking of dressing up, it was Hampton Court, not a NT property, but family of ours from abroad were delighted to see people in Tudor dress - perhaps especially a remarkably authentic looking Henry VIII who passed by, in conversation with a courtier, but still said, ‘Good morrow to you!’ to my Singaporean SiL.
Nieces were enchanted to see young women in Tudor dress sitting in the gardens.

I have been trying to catch up with this thread of enlightening posts.
M0nica I am sad but not surprised to find that NT is doing a Beeching on its properties.

I wonder if they take on board lessons from other property managers/owners. I guess they do and probably are all graduates of the same business school.

Our local landowner recently employed a property manager whose brief is to capitalise on the assets and before lockdown there were all kinds of outdoor games to attract the punters.
www.letsdothis.com/gb/e/rough-runner-scotland-33616

Things could get worse!

Thank you for understanding Blossoming. I see it so often and can compare going out alone or with white friends and when I am with husband. It does get to the stage where you are half expecting it.

To me one of the most shocking things was hearing that my late FIL was here in 1940s as a soldier from the Commonwealth, before being shipped over to France in June 1944 he went to a local church of his denomination near the army base and was thrown out, and they called themselves Christians.

Callistemon, I assumed Maws "alone" was autocorrected, I found it amusing and made a reply. I didn't really expect a history lesson on an ancient TV program .

Sago I really don’t see what your experience with a grumpy pub landlord has in common with the casual everyday racism theworriedwell and her husband must experience on a daily basis. I’m white and that makes me far less likely to be treated the way theworriedwell’s husband was, and is every day.

Further evidence of a misspent youth Callistemon!

toscalily

MawBe, the "alone Ranger" Probably why he hooked up with Tonto.

Q "Why was the Lone Ranger ‘lone’ if he always had Tonto with him?"

A Because he was the only ranger left of his group after they were ambushed by outlaws. Tonto found him alone and called him Kemo Sabe and together they hunted outlaws of the Wild West.