I’ve just seen something that has left me feeling very upset and shaky

Oh please will the Vegan Bandwagon Drivers give us a break. I am so cheesed off with the sanctimonious opportunistic bashing of people who choose to eat a broad balanced diet. Kindly get off our case. Pretty please.
This is a serious issue, not yet another "Look at me, I wear a diet-halo" session. The cruelty in Chinese markets and at their so called festivals is bigger than Developed World petty nonsense. I agree it's frustrating and sickening to think how little we can do but hopefully little by little global public
opinion might someday make a difference. I feel just as horrified at the situation.

Instead of folk arguing whether everyone should become vegans/vegetarian/meat eaters, please remember we all have our own reasons for our choices and shouldn’t feel as though we have to justify that choice to anyone.

But, maybe if we went back to eating food we can produce in our own countries and stop the intense farming where some animals never see the light of day things might improve and our agriculture might begin to thrive again. Folk might begin to grow their own or get an allotment. Yes, meat produce will become more expensive, but that in turn will slow down the eating of meat to the extent we do now.

I know we do not eat certain animals in this country but I firmly believe that if you eat meat of any kind you should be prepared to watch footage of it being killed. Of course it is possible to buy organic meat or other more humanely treated options. I have no time for vegans and similarly no time for anyone who feels a meal isn't a meal without meat of some kind. We eat meat a couple of times a week and have found a happy medium between conscience (including climate change) and desire. I personally do not believe it is healthy to completely remove meat from one's diet.

saetana Maybe you don’t “believe” it is healthy to remove meat from your diet but there are many people who live healthily without eating meat who would disprove that belief. That you say you have “no time for vegans” is evidence that your belief is simply your opinion with no evidence to support it.

I think that an entirely plant based diet is certainly a life-style choice and not something that our digestive systems have evolved to live by entirely. We have evolved a smaller gut than other apes which means that we need more high quality energy intake found in meat rather than plants. Look at the apes tummy?

We do know that meat contributed to humans evolving a bigger brain than other apes, and the brain takes about 20% more energy dense food than the rest of the body.

As Hunter gatherers we evolved to eat a variety of food including meat. In fact the Inuits until recently lived almost entirely on meat. So I think a balanced diet is the way to go as far as I am concerned.

I take on board the environmental factors and have reduced my meat consumption. I also give as much regard to the animals as I possibly can, enquiring about the quality of their life and I know exactly what happens when they and how they are killed- although I have not witnessed it first hand.

ElderlyPerson
Thank you for all the information about becoming Vegan. I did Veganuary & am committed for life now, it’s easy & I’m proud not to exploit animals. Had a blood test recently & all vitamin levels are optimum including B12.

Horrific animal cruelty in China has been turned into yet another tired diet platform. For goodness sake give it a rest. I won't be told what to think any more than I will be lectured to about my choices on my plate.
I grew up in a farming community, my family farmed livestock and arable for many generations but are now vilified, wicked people according to the current V.V. thinking, yet I saw the immense care my father treated his animals with throughout my childhood. I was taken to the abattoir to see what the full cycle of animals in our care involved, I wasn't in an animal fairyland. In adulthood I had a flock of sheep for production of handspun wool and home-reared meat, I have poultry which gives me duck and hen eggs to share with family and friends. I am obviously a dreadful person yet my animals are well cared for, living very happily as far as I am aware, and my poultry are hand-reared rare breeds to add to the biodiversity of livestock. Perhaps saving our native historic breeds is something urban/city dwellers don't realise is as important as other more high profile animal saving campaigns. (see Rare Breeds Survival Trust)
Animals facing massive scale cruelty in a country where we have precious little clout is heartbreaking, but there is plenty happening in many domestic settings in this country. This is cruelty on our doorstep.
Toughening laws to protect all animals in the UK, improving livestock welfare relentlessly and protecting pets from vile owners under our own skies is so much more important than telling people what they should be eating, so at least give support to petitions, lobby your MP, help animal rescue charities and local wildlife organisations. It's not going to change anything across the world but it's going to make a significant difference where we genuinely can.

A lot of running down of vegans on here I note. But if vegans run down meat eaters they are shouted down even more. So...why is that ok?

I'm not "running down vegans", I just get fed up with the
'Veganism is the Solution to All Wrongs'
attitude. You eat whatever you like, feel free, after all we generally can in our part of the world, but I don't think the Halo-Wearing Bean Brigade are seeing the wider picture, just using an opportunity to tell people how wonderful they consider their personal life choices are.
This is about so much more. I could get on to food miles and boycotting cheap Chinese plastic products, but people need to examine the best way to act on a complex cultural situation. A letter to the Chinese Embassy might be a start, instead of trumpeting one's dietary credentials.

No running down of veganism here either. I think people should be allowed to make their food choices without criticism whether they are vegan or meat eaters. I expect it is mainly online that you get some truly awful vegans (meat eaters too but everybody tends to see their viewpoint) where they literally verbally batter you. I won't get into a huge argument with anybody about it but I don't think that with my lifestyle I could cope with a vegan diet even if I wanted to. I would probably end up with a less balanced diet which would counter all the good effects claimed by the vegan pros. I have reduced my meat consumption but I don't want to give it up.

I saw a Michael Mosley programme where a woman was vegan but just lived on vegan sausage rolls etc and I’m sure there are a lot of young people out there doing the same. Given that we do need to eat a healthier, less meat based diet we do need to teach children in schools about nutrition. Just banning junk food adverts before 9 pm isn’t going to cut it. I could possibly cut meat out if my diet completely but not fish, milk, cheese and eggs. I love cheese more than anything. And when I use lentils (which I do a lot these days) I tend to add a meat stock cube to them.

I agree icanhandthemback we all make our own dietary choices whether for health or ethical reasons. No need for vegetarian/vegan bashing at all.
I think some people can be evangelical about their diets..

Appalling behaviour all round from chinese.and we rollover and invite them to buy up our industries, properties land etc and leave ourselves 100% vulnerable to them by being totally reliant on them for our supplies of-well most things! About time we got back our industries and started producing for ourselves. I saw the other day that a UK supplier of clay pigeon shooting supplies was struggling too import the clays and the catapult doofer(?)....from China!?! Surely we can make THOSE here in UK..... Remember the potteries anyone e?!

After being a veggie for many years i went on to being a vegan for two years.
My health was poor and I becme weaker. This went on for long time
Eventually I was pursuaded to eat meat again.
It was really hard to do as my head was full of moral judgements to not eat animals.
I have evolved into eating a diet of different foods including fish and meat a few times a week.

I really do believe that going vegan seriously did damage my health. For one thing there is no B12 in a vegan diet and at that time supplents and bottled vitamins were not so common.

A very restricted diet is not healthy.
It was a doctor that talked me back into eating flesh my only cclause is that it has to be organic and if I can it is local.

But I will never support a vegan diet again. what other people eat is their choice.

Gabrielle56 it’s increasingly hard not to buy ‘made in China’. I ordered some Royal Worcester Wrendale bone china mugs for my sister and the label said made in China.

Regardng the Chinese food habits and their disgusting attitude to animals and people I have nothing good to say.

I wish the rest of the world would join together to put China under pressure to clean up their act.
They have done as they please ever since invading Tibet and carrying out genocide of thei Tibetan people and Tibetan culture.
I try not to buy Chinese but as others have said it is very difficult

Anyone gullible enough to believe that the Yulin festival will be banned by the Chinese authorities presumably also believes that the Uighur Muslims are voluntary attendants at an education institution.

Cymres1 wrote "Horrific animal cruelty in China has been turned into yet another tired diet platform. For goodness sake give it a rest. ..."

The OP included

"I eat meat so perhaps do not have any entitlement not to be protected from the reality."

So the OP introduced diet of people here into the discussion.

So the OP opened the door to discussing that, and some people have discussed it.

ElderlyPerson

Cymres1 wrote "Horrific animal cruelty in China has been turned into yet another tired diet platform. For goodness sake give it a rest. ..."

The OP included

"I eat meat so perhaps do not have any entitlement not to be protected from the reality."

So the OP introduced diet of people here into the discussion.

So the OP opened the door to discussing that, and some people have discussed it.

Oh so it’s all my fault???

No, I am not saying that it is your fault at all.

No fault.

I am simply saying that discussing diet and whether hurting animals and spoiling their opportunity for life so as to eat their bodies is on-topic, and thus is not an off-topic diversion of the thread.

I posted earlier about the killing of birds in order to preserve the rice crop. Thinking further about it I don’t suppose their is a crop farmer anywhere in the world that doesn’t have to take similar steps to preserve his crops against wildlife.

While the human race is in competition for food with animals it’s inevitable that one or the other will have to pay the price.

I understand the distaste for eating flesh but I think it’s a ingenuous to believe that no animal has suffered or lost its life if your diet is purely herbivore. It’s not how farming works.

That’s true. Just as vegetation is destroyed to create space for cattle wild animals lose their habitat when people grow crops. Look at the problems caused by elephants destroying crops which is actually just them eating vegetation growing on the land where they’ve always lived. It’s a very complex problem on many levels. But one that we really need to work on.

Disingenuous

Really I must check posts stead of using Gransnet as a repository for my rambling thoughts?

www.thevegankind.com/news/2021-06-24-animal-charity-saves-pig-matilda-after-thousands-sign-petition

I can't understand how the Chinese think it's ok to act so in humanly towards animals. Don't they have hearts, don't they realise the animal is actually suffering a tortuous death?. Surely they're not that thick. It should be a criminal offence to torture animals like this, they should suffer the same fate.