The unvaccinated

Sparklefizz

I have no patience with those who choose not to get vaccinated as I have 2 grandchildren who are poorly with Covid, and the youngest one is really quite ill. He hurts all over from head to foot, and it even hurts him to move his eyes!!! I am worried to bits.

I'm so sorry to read this, sending kindest thoughts to you and your dear grandchildren

Yes, a very small number will unfortunately die from a blood clot after vaccination but every day some people will die in road accidents but we don’t stop driving or walking about, every day some people will accidents in the home but we don’t stop living in houses with electricity and other dangerous products, every day people die from alcoholism/diseases caused by alcohol but we don’t all stop drinking alcohol, and every day roughly one hundred people die of Covid and the vast majority of them are unvaccinated. You have far more chance of getting Covid if you’re unvaccinated, and far more chance of ending up in hospital with Covid if you’re unvaccinated. The vast majority of patients in ICU with Covid are unvaccinated. 130,000 people in Britain have died of Covid, but 130,000 have not died from blood clots caused by vaccination. Which is the greater risk?

Maddyone, it is so sad, and so wrong that people are suffering because others are talking rubbish, conspiracy theories etc.
careless talk costs lives.
indeed. and malicious, deliberately misleading talk.

Kryptonite, you speak of someone being the unlucky one, and that you are prone to bad luck.
how come you are not concerned at the greater risk of getting the virus, and of having to be hospitalised if you get it, risk of it causing blood clots, etc.
you are at much greater risk of getting the virus if you are unvaccinated, and of it hitting you much harder, than if you had been fully vaccinated.
anyway, at least you've had one dose. half a loaf...

I have no patience with those who choose not to get vaccinated as I have 2 grandchildren who are poorly with Covid, and the youngest one is really quite ill. He hurts all over from head to foot, and it even hurts him to move his eyes!!! I am worried to bits.

That’s a desperately sad story maddyone
If only people stuck to the facts, the hard statistical facts detailing the minuscule risks versus massive benefits of getting vaccinated, these tragedies wouldn’t happen.

My DD had a blood clot after a skiing accident, both her jabs were AstraZeneca, she didn't think twice about having her vaccination.

Thank you for posting this Kryptonite. I see now where your number comes from:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting

However, the report contains much explanatory information about these numbers and states:

Anyone who experienced cerebral or other major blood clots occurring with low levels of platelets after their first vaccine dose of COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca should not have their second dose. Anyone who did not have these side effects should come forward for their second dose when invited.

You are in that second category but I don't think here is anything more I can say to convince you that the risk of you getting VITT from that second dose is tiny.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202108/medium-944512-screenshot-20210823-100503-samsung-internet.jpg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202108/medium-453270-screenshot-20210823-100417-samsung-internet.jpg

Silversmith: Thank you for your detailed post. I hope you can see my screenshots. This is the Government weekly Yellow Card reporting published every Thursday. Nothing helps me really because somebody will be unlucky in this and it could be me. I get plenty of bad luck as it is. Having the first jab nearly finished me off in anxiety alone. Thanks anyway.

I have just read on my iPad that a 35 year old mother of four, including a brand new baby she never saw, died of Covid, contracted whilst she was pregnant. She was unvaccinated! The husband was pleading with people to get vaccinated. They live in Northern Ireland.
How devastatingly sad this is. Four children left without a mother. A husband without his life partner. A family left devastated. Pregnant women are at particular risk from Covid and the vaccine has been shown to be safe for pregnant women. The mother never saw her new baby girl. There are no words to describe the sadness of this situation, all for the lack of a clinically proven, safe vaccine.

Great post Silverbridge.

Krypytonite. I can’t find a source for 73 people having died from vaccine-induced thrombocytopenia and thrombosis (VITT). Can you provide it please?

The following numbers are from a Guardian article dated 11 August 2021 about the research.

220 confirmed and probable cases of VITT presented in UK hospitals between 22 March and 6 June. 23% died. That’s 50 people. Although the median age of the 220 was 48, 85% were under 60. If you apply 85% to the 50, that’s 42 deaths.

42 deaths of people age 18-60
8 deaths of people age 60-79

77% of the 220 cases, 170 survived.

From real world data. VITT has occurred in 8 people per million vaccinated with a first dose.

No-one is saying that the risk doesn’t exist but it is very tiny compared to the risk of developing clots from Covid infection.

More than a fifth of people hospitalised with Covid have evidence of blood clots. The cumulative total of patients who have been admitted to hospital in the UK is over 500,000. A fifth, 100,000 have evidence of blood clots.

Compare the risk. If you get sick enough with Covid to be hospitalised you run a 1 in 5 chance of getting clots. AZ vaccination - 8 in a million.

You have had your first shot of AZ and were one of the 999,992 out of every million who didn’t get VITT. I’d say the odds are overwhelmingly in your favour that all will be well if you go and get your second shot of AZ.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/11/oxfordastrazeneca-vaccine-rare-blood-clot-syndrome-has-high-mortality-rate

Moral of this story - don't do sums before your morning coffee.

250 times more likely, not 45.

Any corrections welcome

A Z vaccine - autocorrect.

I'm going to take a guess that your age group is between 16 and 64. About 18,000 people in that age group have died of covid, so your chance of dying of covid is about 45 times that of dying from blood clots caused by the AS vaccine, using your figures.

Informed choice, you think?

Up to 11 August, 73 people have suffered fatal blood clots from AZ, most of those females in my age group, and a small number on second dose (Yelliw Card). I perfectly understand the person asking me to move and I didn't make a fuss nor would I if it happens again. I was just explaining how it felt. I cannot stop thinking about the perfectly healthy people who have died from this jab. If you have one of these blood clots, there is a high probability of death. I am not allowed to have Pfizer for second jab because of UK vaccination rules, but I will ask again.

The AZ vaccination is just an chimpanzee-adenovirus spliced with the gene sequence of SARS-Cov2. It enables your immune system to create memory cells to recognise the infection if and when it encounters it. It has to be an animal adenovirus to be detected as something foreign in the first instance to make the immune system react. The "substance/chemical' as you describe it, is gone from the body in days.

As had been said over and over and over, the risk of blood clotting is tiny compared to the risk of becoming seriously ill and worse from infection.

Pro-informed is one thing provided it is based on an understanding of the science. Risk assessing and coming down in favour of the bigger risk is foolish.

The person who asked you to move was exercising her freedom of choice not to sit near someone who is not as protected as they could be and possibly compromising her safety. It works both ways.

Saying ‘blood clot risky AZ’ is the same as saying I’ve just taken a ‘stomach ulcer risky Aspirin’.There are risks in most drugs we take, including alcohol, we don’t commonly describe them in such a manner.

Someone asked me to move places at a meeting (from my well spaced seat by an open window) to elsewhere in the room and well away from her, because I've only had one jab of the blood clot risky AZ. She stated this openly and in the hearing of others. I did as asked, but felt it was rather discriminatory nevertheless. I know many would not sympathise with me at all on this, but I wonder how tricky my life will be going forward simply because I have exercised my freedom of choice.

Forcing people to be injected with substance/chemicals is the slippery slope to a country that will lose its freedoms. Ethically so wrong. I am not anti-vax but pro-informed choice. It is right to question everything and take people's anxieties seriously..

Ahh, you could well be right welbeck.

i think was 90% of ITU patients were unvaccinated

Thankyou Jane I cant imagine the bravery it takes to think through the issues you have described, when you are reliant on carers for support for your child.
I am concerned about people treating carers in a way that almost seems as if they arent viewed as human, when 5 minutes ago those people were expecting carers to risk their own lives. It is very complex and cries of sack them and dont let them in dont help.
In my area it seems very likely that a young woman died of a blood clot following the vaccine, she left two young sons. Do we think those children should be barred from participating in the world when they grow up if they refuse to be vaccinated. People have experiences that are different to ours and we rarely know the full story. Education, support etc are what is needed not authoritarianism.

A doctor said recently that that 90% of those in hospital are not vaccinated, so it seems unlikely to me that the figure 60% of those in hospital are double vaccinated is correct.

Well said Harmonypuss. I’m amazed at the numbers of carers who remain unvaccinated e,g. itsawelshthing. How can their employers allow this?