Shemima Begum

If she was groomed at 15, is she now being 're-branded' as a Westerner to convince the UK to have her back. A sort of Trojan horse approach?

I don't condone violence at all but if she was allowed back and faced prosecution she would have a miserable time in prison, pretty much what she deserves in my opinion. She showed no compassion for the victims of the Manchester Arena bombing whatsoever, in fact didn't she quote 'it was by way of relatiation by ISIS'?
I don't believe she genuinely wants to help and advise on national security issues concerning radicalisation either any more than I believe in the tooth fairy.

I watched the interview and her lack of empathy chilled me. At 15 she made up her mind to leave the UK and her family to enter the life of terrorism. To see her talking yesterday with her appearance so drastically changed, she seemed like a wolf in lamb's clothing. No way do I trust her. No way would I ever want her to be able to enter the UK.

If she had information that could help our security forces, do you really believe that ISIS would let her leave, enabling her to share such information? No. She is masquerading and she is dangerous.

trisher

She was born in Britain, she grew up in Bitain, she was radicalised in Britain. It's time we started taking responsibility for our citizens and their crimes. She should be tried in Britain and if found guilty of any crime spend her time in a British prison.

Oh yes, let's put her in prison here but not too nasty, she'll be upset and at the same time let all the hand-wringers and lawyers out to make a name for themselves accuse the Government of every wokey crime they can think of to get her out.
She's where she wanted to be, leave her to rot there for our safety.

GG13 Re being kept in a strict Muslim enclave and her definitely western appearance. It makes you wonder if she is being used as a pawn. Get her back here and make use of her.
She would find it difficult to decry the evils of ISIS whilst she’s there I suppose, but what she does say, doesn’t support the idea that she really thinks they were wrong.
Someone mentioned earlier about the rights of her husband to come to England if she is here and we’d probably allow it,
The idea that she should come back here to be tried worries me because of our justice system. The trial could be dragged out for ages whilst she claims innocence by indoctrination, vulnerability etc.
What is she going to be tried for? Where did she commit the crimes? Does the country she went to see her behaviour as criminal?
I understand why she’d like to come back, but I’m not convinced.

She wasn't wearing a black jilbab, hijab and niqab when she grew up here. Photos of her when she was leaving showed the girls wearing usual attire of teenage Muslim girls in the West.

Not sure why this obsession with what she's wearing. I'd have thought it understandable she'd have had to change her clothing. She's changed back now. I doubt it's to garner support with the British public.

Piers Morgan wrote an illuminating article in the Mail yesterday. It appears a lot of people agree with him. He calls her a monster and says she should be left to rot. Which it appears she will .

She can't go to Bangladesh, either. They don't want her and have said will refuse any attempt to allow her entry.

Quite a good article here

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/26/britain-risks-new-guantanamo-syria-rights-group-shamima-begum

Wokey

?

I think it's so interesting that many of the posts on this thread describe her as "robotic" unfeeling or use other words meaning she fails to show the emotional responses people think women traditionally should exhibit

I agree with most of your post trisher but I think, although may be mistaken, that people are not so much wary of her lack of emotion or feelings "as a woman", but as a human being. She did say, in an earlier interview, that when confronted with beheaded bodies, and other atrocities that would turn the stomach of most human beings; it didn't bother her too much. She is manipulative but I can see why that's the case.

What is coming out on here is how polarised we are in our attitudes. This forum of "grandparents" who have access to the internet, are educated, thoughtful and wise etc cannot agree where we stand in relation to this one problem woman/person.

Personally, from my own experience of dealing with difficult things in my own life, I don't react emotionally and find I cannot cry. It's a defence mechanism but others probably think I am cold and feelingless. The human being has an instinct for survival and this Shamima has a strong one too.

I don't see how it's reasonable for Britain to relinquish all responsibility for these people and this one in particular. If she had come to Britain as a refugee I could accept that she could lose her citizenship. Why do we expect Bangladesh to take responsibility?
I think the actions of the Government in this case makes the UK look weak. She is our problem.

Letting her return here to face trial and be hopefully found guilty is all very well in principle, but the reality is that every human rights lawyer in the country would be clamouring to take on her case, so there’s no guarantee she would be found guilty.

Even if she were, and given a long sentence, we all know that she would be out in a few years complete with a house, benefits and of course a new identity.

For those who still have sympathy with her, just think about Sajid Javid’s words, something along the lines of “If you knew what I know about her, you would agree with me “

She should stay where she is.

The Hunan being has an instinct for survival and this Shamima has a strong one too

Totally agree Grammameretto

I just have an uneasy feeling that yet again she is being groomed/used, and to what end?

I do feel that she should be put on trial, the question is where? Surely if you have committed a crime in a foreign country you are normally tried in that country?

Good post trisher 10:15. Thanks for the link. Interesting reading.

For those who still have sympathy with her, just think about Sajid Javid’s words, something along the lines of “If you knew what I know about her, you would agree with me

That was a rather childish comment by Javid. I was surprised.

And I don't actually have any sympathy for her, either.

Totally agree with Grammaretto about people not necessarily reacting the way that is expected as well.

For those commenting on her appearance I don't doubt that there are people who have a vested interest in her and her story. Where I probably differ is in thinking that those interests are at all linked with Muslims or terrorism. I would imagine there are people who realise that her story could make them a fortune in book rights/film and documentaries. So after being groomed as a 15 year old, subjected to sexual exploitation and horrific violence she is now being manipulated by western entertainment moguls. You really have to see just a victim, and whatever happens to her I very much doubt if her future will be as easy or as simple as some imagine.

Unfortunately trisher we do not know who is pulling her strings at this present time?

The Government has to weigh up her human rights with U.K. security all we as individuals can hope for is that the Security Services information is accurate and current.

Her life is ruined, laying in tatters but at least she has a life which is more than the thousands of souls murdered by Daesh along with the maimed and their grieving families for whom their nightmare will continue…

GrannyGravy13

Unfortunately trisher we do not know who is pulling her strings at this present time?

The Government has to weigh up her human rights with U.K. security all we as individuals can hope for is that the Security Services information is accurate and current.

Her life is ruined, laying in tatters but at least she has a life which is more than the thousands of souls murdered by Daesh along with the maimed and their grieving families for whom their nightmare will continue…

Her human rights include the right to citizenship of the UK.

Sorry but I don't see a victim. We have no idea if she's being manipulated or if she's the manipulator but either should preclude her from ever returning.

I agree Chewbacca she is not being judged for her lack of emotion because she's a woman but because of what she's witnessed, taken part in and excused.

Maybe the instinct to survive is why some of us instinctively don't want her to return.

So if someone is being manipulated that means it precludes them from returning?

That person is the victim but we don't want them here, thank you very much?

Just listen to what you are saying.

Trisher I agree that it’s immoral to make someone stateless both the U.K. and Bangladesh have effectively washed their hands of her.

However I feel that she should get a fair trial in a neutral Country, if found guilty the U.K. could either pay for her incarceration in that Country or bring her back to the U.K. to carry out her sentence. What happens after that would be down to the Justices/Government of the day.

She has never lived in Bangladesh though, she was born and lived her whole life in the UK. Her mother was originally from Bangladesh, but is a UK citizen too. Whatever she did, she is a British citizen and is the responsibility of the country, she can’t be palmed off to another country to deal with.

If you aren't willing to inform yourself about child soldiers, the effects of witnessing violence on young brains and the subsequent inability to express or show emotion you really don't know what you are talking about.
This applies
Age-relevant considerations are necessary: children below the age of eighteen are still developing human beings, and their conscription is a form of abuse that adversely affects the child’s right to unhindered growth, as well as the capability to maintain an identity contextual to the growth. Research has shown that the younger the age of conscription, the harsher the psychological consequences.
Gender-relevant considerations are also necessary. The association of child soldier status with PTSD is twice as strong for girls compared with boys. This suggests that factors such as non- traumatic experiences or traumatic exposures other than those observed (notably sexual and other forms of gender-based violence) may contribute to depression and PTSD, with these factors especially important for girl soldiers.
If you are interested carrcenter.hks.harvard.edu/files/cchr/files/dalessandra_pshychol_cons_of_childsoldiers.pdf

rafichagran Trisher has given a good reason why she might not show the emotions that you would expect her to show.I do have some sympathy for her even if you don't. To have made a decision aged 15 that has led her into such a violent dark place is really tragic. I also have sympathy for her family.

I am just so relieved that stupid and even dangerous decision that I tried to make when I was 15 years old, were not permitted by my father (back in the 1950's they had much more control). I also think back to my own children and some very really bad decisions they took during their teen years.
Just so pleased that none of these have any effect on their lives now.

This young woman has experienced more hardship and personal tragedy in her young life, than most of us have, even though many decades older. No wonder she comes over as hard and uncaring - her way of dealing with these tragedies.

Yes, she would need watching and monitoring if she were permitted to come back to her home - but it is her home - and that is exactly where she should be able to come.

trisher

She was born in Britain, she grew up in Bitain, she was radicalised in Britain. It's time we started taking responsibility for our citizens and their crimes. She should be tried in Britain and if found guilty of any crime spend her time in a British prison.

Absolutely. Who knows what any of us can do under propoganda that blots out the truth.