Staying on topic- threads in general

There’s a very good article about Marion Millar’s case in the Spectator. www.spectator.co.uk/article/marion-millar-should-never-have-been-in-court

That's an excellent piece of journalism SueDonim, thanks for sharing. This paragraph stood out for me: Trans people should be afforded the same rights and protections as everyone else. A reduction in adult waiting times for gender identity clinics, which are currently scandalously long, is much needed. This, at least, is a more urgent priority than unleashing the cops on radical feminists and getting the word ‘mother’ removed from government documents.
But the dominant, mainstream mode of trans activism prioritises censorship, bullying, intimidation and institutional and linguistic capture. These things have to be fought because they are destructive of open, pluralistic societies.

And so they are.

Yes, that stood out for me, too.

Universities should state that, in fairness to everyone, they have chosen a set of words, not currently in use, to be used as pronouns for all.

Of course it's important what gender identity clinics actually do.
Most people, I'd guess, imagine that they help clients to explore their feelings around gender and what would be the best way forward for them.
What is more likely is that, as shown with Tavistock, they very quickly affirm the person as being the opposite sex, or no sex, and usher them into medication and/or surgery in support of that.

FarNorth yes indeed.

My son works in academia. His institution has requested that people state their pronouns. He has ignored that. He doesn’t do forced speech and he also doesn’t care how he’s addressed - Dr, sir, Mrs, princess, he doesn’t give a damn, he’ll talk to them anyway.

We need more people to take that attitude SueDonim.

My attention has also been brought to this Twitter thread. It’s not just about trans matters but about how daring to challenge certain thinking gets you punished.

twitter.com/babybeginner/status/1163478536297930753

Students and staff at Leeds University have called on their vice-chancellor and senior employees to include gender pronouns when introducing themselves in meetings.
They also said that the vice-chancellor, Simone Buitendijk, should state her preferred gender pronouns in her email signature. Both measures are designed to show support for the transgender community.

Someone on another forum has made the comment did they (plural) check with Simone whether they (singular) were happy with being referred to as her, it would be literal violence if Simone has been misgendered!

We know a young person who announced that she wishes to be known as 'they' in future.

I haven't been able to grasp this as she, he, it are singular therefore referring to one person but they is plural referring to two or more people.

SueDonim I scrolled through the twatter feed and howled with laughter at the woman who was accused of "appropriating the vegan ethos and should be banned from vegan community" because she said that she only ate tofu because she didn't like the taste or texture of meat. Apparently, even what you eat, and the reasons behind it, are up for public scrutiny and censorship now and if you're found wanting, you'll be cancelled.

I read it and thought Lord of the Flies theory very apt.

However "Millennials" to me will always been those who came of age in 2000 ie those born in 1982.
Am I confused again?

(Better to remain confused than become indoctrinated.)

Chewbacca I don't like the taste and texture of meat either and I don't eat it!! I had no idea what I was doing until you enlightened me above!!!

My DS is in deep doo doo as well Madgran as he hasn't liked the taste or texture of meat since he was a child either. He's due round later this evening so I'll make sure that I point out that his "vegan lifestyle appropriation" is neither big nor clever and to get his gnashers around a pork chop quicksticks. I'll let you know how it goes.......

Yes, that’s hilarious, isn’t? Not the right sort of vegan! ?

What is 'the vegan community?' People are strange, aren't they?

I got my chops gnashers round some tofu once - is that the revolting white stuff that comes in squares?

Can't say I was very keen at all so I am not joining any vegan community.
My vegan friend just lives in a normal house with her meat-eating DH and vegetarian children, not in any community.

It makes it sound like a cult.

It makes it sound like a cult There's a lot of them around now Callistemon. And if you're not "in" their cult, you're automatically against them and therefore must be cancelled.

Yes, it is, Calistemon. Soya upsets my stomach so I’ve only eaten it the once.

A friend tried making her own tofu and soya milk, from dried beans. She ended up with litres and litres of milk and kilos of tofu, which she tried desperately to give away to anyone who’d take it. She’s never repeated the experiment.

I’d no idea about the pressure to self ID by pronoun on university profs/lecturers was a Thing till I read this thread. I suppose that admission confirms I’m an out of date, third wave white feminist with no idea about oppression.
In the 70’s and 80’s, I wrote essays, reports, etc using they. I couldn’t see any problem with ‘they’ rather than s/he. So, whilst I was unaware of the nonsense facing SueDonim’s son I defend his determination not to play this ridiculous, oppressive game.
Chewbacca, thanks for your great contributions. I will hold your reference to the stars Jewish people were forced to wear to make sure their ethicity/race/faith/belief system etc was made clear to everyone.
We are in dangerous waters

I quite like tofu, and my husband is veggie, as was I for ages, so it's not that that makes me roll my eyes, it's the notion of a 'community' united in their love of soya based foodstuffs.

I agree that we seem to be moving in a very dictatorial direction as regards things that used to just be matters of opinion. It's not a good thing, IMO, and the trans arguments are just adding to the divisions that are already quite unpleasant (Brexit, climate change, vaccinations, generational conflict and so on). It's the 'with us or against us' mentality that often presages an upsurge in fascism.

Back to pronouns, I see them all the time on Zoom screens, and they seem to me utterly pointless. Everyone uses names, not pronouns, except when talking directly to someone, in which case you would say 'you'. There seems to be more than a little self-absorption going on when someone wants to dictate how they are referred to when they aren't there (and even that makes the assumption that people will want to talk about them when they're not there).

My DS is in deep doo doo as well Madgran as he hasn't liked the taste or texture of meat since he was a child either. He's due round later this evening so I'll make sure that I point out that his "vegan lifestyle appropriation" is neither big nor clever and to get his gnashers around a pork chop quicksticks. I'll let you know how it goes....

I will be interested!!

Tofu ...for those who don't like the plain stuff (me too!) the marinated cubes made by Cauldron foods are nice ..chucked into sauces or just on their own.

Um ...so the original title of this thread was "Staying on topic ..threads in general"!!

We have now meandered on to Tofu!!!

Well, the point made in the OP was that meandering is fine.

I'm vegan and I'm happy if anyone wants to eat vegan or vegetarian food now & again.
Whyever not?