Staying on topic- threads in general

"The most frightening thing for me is using women's very real fears ......." it has nothing to do with using women's fears, and everything to do with those fears being ignored. Women are afraid and it has absolutely nothing to do with right wing ideology.

I find it incredulous that there is yet another statement that "feminism was created to fight oppression". We know what feminism was created for.

"it is pulling women over to right wing thinking" really!!

I didn't say that Galaxy I said I am concerned that is happening though.

I can't stand up in the face of putting words in my mouth or that elephant people are ignoring because being right is too important to them so they can't hear what is actually being said and meant.

I think I need to step away from these discussions for the sake of my own mental health. I haven't joined the new ones (although I am being discussed unfairly on them) and these ones need to be hidden for my own good.

But remember the secret right wing money funding her chewbacca, I dont know about you but it's taken them ages to put anything in my account. Tight gits.

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics. SNAP! I thought the very same thing when I saw the James Morton Tweet.

How odd that ardent "feminists" dislike JK Rowling so much. She has given £15.3 million to support 14 charities and 17 causes across children's, women's and literacy charities. She's confirmed that she's a staunch Labour supporter and that her books give many clues to that. She's been a personal benefactor to several aspiring actors who she has financially supported since childhood. I'll bet she's gutted that you don't like her and takes it very personally indeed.
Although probably not

Chewbacca

Here you go trisher check it out yourself. There are several ways to contact Madison Smith if you disagree with her stats. I think you'll like the Tweet James Morton, Scottish Transgender Alliance Manager at the Equality Network. Illustrates exactly how statistics get manipulated.

thecritic.co.uk/neither-marginalised-abused-nor-vulnerable/

I don't "disagree" with her statistics Chewbacca I question their origins because there are no records

How many trans people are murdered in the UK?

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) confirmed to FactCheck that “it is not possible to identify transgender victims in current homicide statistics” and “the sex of a homicide victim is determined by the police force that records the crime”.

In other words, there is not yet an official, standardised method for recording the deaths of trans people across the UK. The ONS told FactCheck they are working across government to “develop clear harmonised standards” for collecting data on sex and gender.

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

It just doesnt work anymore violet. In the same way as no debate didnt work, in the same way as what was it again a group of high powered lesbians gathering women into a gender critical cult didnt work. Everyone can see the nonsense for what it is.

VioletSky

Galaxy

Violet. We all know this. No offence but most of us followed the JKR debate very closely. You are as entitled to dislike her as I am entitled to think she is brave.

Ah but the reason I dislike her didn't start with her views on trans people, it started when she said that demographics existed in her books that weren't there

I'm puzzled by that, Violetsky
Her children's books are fantasy and are known to be such.
Did she mean her books for adults?
What exactly did she mean?

I am not right wing. Could you stop making generalisations. Its just nonsense.

“As for JK Rowling, I never particularly liked her.”
Thanks for sharing that useless item about your feelings. Would you like a list of the authors I don’t rate in exchange?
This isn’t a competition. One trans person murdered by anyone, trans or not is one too many, just as one woman raped or murdered by anyone trans or not is one too many.
Putting people convicted of rape (genetically male) in close quarters with potential victims (female) is aiding and abetting a potential-even probable offence.

The most frightening thing for me is using women's very real fears, by constantly claiming that accepting trans women as women erodes their safe spaces despite the fact that no one has advocated for that here, it is pulling women over to right wing thinking. Right wing idealogy and feminism has always had, in my view, a very tenuous connection due to the fact that feminsim was created to fight oppression.

Here you go trisher check it out yourself. There are several ways to contact Madison Smith if you disagree with her stats. I think you'll like the Tweet James Morton, Scottish Transgender Alliance Manager at the Equality Network. Illustrates exactly how statistics get manipulated.

thecritic.co.uk/neither-marginalised-abused-nor-vulnerable/

Unfortunately some feminists are very selective when it comes to fighting oppression, and some of the 'arguments' I've seen put forward during these discussions not only reinforce this selectivity, they support some of the causes of oppression.

Exactly Gakaxy" "It is not oppressing a man to say they should not be in woman's space" but it *is oppressing women to say they can be there, whether women want them there or not.

How can you dislike someone you've never met and don't know? You can dislike their views but not the person, and if everyone could differentiate between the two, that in itself could have a real impact on reducing the number of hate crimes.

Well I would be surprised "if hate crimes against transgender people" rise as a result of mature and sensible discussions. So far the only evidence of hate I have seen, has been directed at those who express their concerns about the erosion of women's safe places and the unnecessary change of language.

I agree Galaxy JKR is brave, brave enough to speak out, perhaps braver than some in the public eye who go along with the unfounded criticism she's received because they're afraid to do otherwise.

An informative and interesting post Chewbacca.

Exactly where the figures quoted in the Critic came from is questionable since the UK does not and has not identified or recorded crime by any recognised trans gender definition. until very recently www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-many-trans-people-murdered-uk
The statistics are approximate and are possibly about 1.
But as I said why on earth is this a competition?

As for JK Rowling I never particularly liked her. Her books are undoubtedly popular but the stories that were released about her when they were first published were just nonsense. I find her stance on transmatters both unacceptable and unnecessary.

I thought we were better than letting men be in spaces with women who have been raped and assaulted but apparently not. It is not oppressing a man to say they should not be in a womans space.

You are your sort of feminist.

Because I am a feminist and we fight oppression, always have and always wil. We do not cause it.

Disguised by Covid measures? Surely not VS. That would be as bad as rape or murders by TW being recorded as committed by a female.

I'm not OK with it. I'm tired of it. It needs to stop. It's constant, 1 demographic after another marginalised and oppressed. When it is happening by those who truly know how it feels to be marginalised and oppressed, it breaks my heart because I just thought we were better than that.

Aye right.

Do you remember how quickly race based hate crime rose during public discussion about brexit and the strong views expressed about minorities coming here and taking "are" jobs.

Well, while these discussions are happening publically I would have no surprise if hate crimes against transgender people are rising as a result, only currently disguised by covid measures.

Do feel free to explain.....

It's good that hate crime are being recategorised and taken more seriously so that people get the punishment they deserve.

People do understand how statistics work right?

Also math?

From The Critic: 21st October, 2021

Let’s begin with the clearest indicator of the extent to which a community is “marginalised and abused”: the murder rate of those within it. Because there is no stable definition of what constitutes a “trans person”, there is no standardised method for recording the deaths of trans people across the UK. However, we know that there have been eight reported murders of people who defined themselves as transgender, transsexual or cross-dressers in the UK since reporting began in 2008. Note that the UK is not a European anomaly — in Germany there hasn’t been a murder of a trans person since 2008, while 26 countries in Europe have reported no murders of trans people for the entire period.

Even though we’ve seen a sharp rise in the number of people who identify as transgender in the last few years, a trans person hasn’t been murdered in the UK for nearly three years and there are, for example, no reports ever of a trans person in Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland being murdered.

Moreover, not one of even the eleven people Transrespect says were murdered, were killed due to “transphobia”. The victim in each case was typically murdered by a male sexual partner due to drugs or money issues. None were killed by a woman — and one was killed by a man who identifies as a woman. True, the total number of hate crime offences has soared in recent years. However, this has been driven by changes to both the recording of crimes and the identification of what constitutes a hate crime. Measures of hate crime that are unaffected by changes in policing or recording methods, such as the Crime Survey for England and Wales, show a “long -^term decline in hate crime."^

Hate Crime Reported
RACE

2015/16 @ 45,440
2016/2017 @ 58,294
2017/2018 @ 64,829
2018/2019 @ 72,041
2019/2020 @ 76,070

*RELIGION
2015/16 @ 3962
2016/2017 @ 5184
2017/2018 @ 7103
2018/2019 @ 7203
2019/2020 @ 6822

SEXUAL ORIENTATION

2015/16 @ 6700
2016/2017 @ 8569
2017/2018 @ 10,670
2018/2019 @ 13,314
2019/2020 @ 15,835

DISABILITY

2015/16 @ 3393
2016/2017 @ 5254
2017/2018 @ 6787
2018/2019 @ 7786
2019/2020 @ 8469

TRANSGENDER

2015/16 @ 820
2016/2017 @ 1195
2017/2018 @ 1615
2018/2019 @ 2183
2019/2020 @ 2540

Of the five monitored strands that the police record as hate crimes, the transgender category has, every year, and by some distance, seen the least number of “hate crimes” against it. In fact, religion — the next-lowest — saw nearly three times as many incidents in the last recording year.