Staying on topic- threads in general

Never mind, men don't have to worry about any of this 'inclusive' stuff. That's good news, isn't it.
Or maybe not if prostate-havers who don't identify as men don't get the message.


"Yearly prostate checks benefit some men aged 40 plus"

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58952471

Okay, time for a random pic.

Hang on trisher..... in order to be "inclusive" we have to accept:

A transwoman is a woman and has every right to be referred to as such because that's what they feel comfortable with.
A transman is a man and has every right to be referred to as such because that's what they feel comfortable with.

A transwidow has no right to be referred to as such no matter how comfortable they are with it.

Do you make this stuff up as you go along?

FarNorth

They also can't be used by medical staff, going by the ones I have heard on the radio recently, talking about people with a cervix etc.

That's transmen FarNorth who don't want to be called women.

Funny that women whose husbands transition can be widows but women who transition can't even use the term "person with a cervix".
Tells you something about attitudes to transitioning doesn't it.

trisher Transwidows is a term for those women who feel their husband is 'dead' to them when he decides he's always been a woman. Perhaps they should just drop the trans part, and refer to themselves as widows on account of their partner deciding their previous name and gender is now 'dead', the heterosexual marriage they entered into is dead, and the law should acknowledge them as such. That would be true inclusivity. In other situations they can refer to themselves as transwidows or the much rarer transwidowers.

trisher

FarNorth

They also can't be used by medical staff, going by the ones I have heard on the radio recently, talking about people with a cervix etc.

That's transmen FarNorth who don't want to be called women.

Funny that women whose husbands transition can be widows but women who transition can't even use the term "person with a cervix".
Tells you something about attitudes to transitioning doesn't it.

You are so transparent, transmen get to be referred to by their preferred terms, transwomen get to be referred to by their preferred terms. Biological women get to be referred to by anything anybody else decides, shove up, shut up, do as you're told!

I despair?

Me too Doodledog.

Would transwidows still refer to themselves that way if they accepted trans people in general?

Please remember this is a question not a statement because the only stories I have come across were on a website for those who do not include trans people

Rosie51 a biological woman whose husband dies is a widow. A biological man whose wife dies is a widower.
Nothing sexist about it
A person of either sex who divorces their partner is a divorcee.
If relationship breaks up because one partner transitions and there is a divorce and they are divorcees regardless of sex or gender.
Some people see discrimination in everything no matter how equal the circumstances.

VioletSky

Would transwidows still refer to themselves that way if they accepted trans people in general?

Please remember this is a question not a statement because the only stories I have come across were on a website for those who do not include trans people

Who knows? It’s not possible to speak for all of them, is it?

Nobody is suggesting that a niche term should necessarily be used by all people in that situation, just saying that the option should be open, if we are busy changing the language to incorporate all eventualities.

trisher

Rosie51 a biological woman whose husband dies is a widow. A biological man whose wife dies is a widower.
Nothing sexist about it
A person of either sex who divorces their partner is a divorcee.
If relationship breaks up because one partner transitions and there is a divorce and they are divorcees regardless of sex or gender.
Some people see discrimination in everything no matter how equal the circumstances.

Why does none of this depend on how they present, and whether their political align with yours?

Chewbacca

^I despair?^

Me too Doodledog.

Me too! Words apparently have meanings set in stone.......except when they don't ???

If we are changing language like this - that is a woman whose husband has transitioned has the right to call herself a widow because she feels like one, then logically speaking a transwoman has the right to claim she has the same reproductive organs as a birth woman because she feels she has them, even if she still has a penis.

And the fluidity of the meanings, causes of offenses, inclusivities and exclusivities always flows in one direction ....... misogyny. As you said Rosie51; shove up, shut up, do as you're told!

trisher

If we are changing language like this - that is a woman whose husband has transitioned has the right to call herself a widow because she feels like one, then logically speaking a transwoman has the right to claim she has the same reproductive organs as a birth woman because she feels she has them, even if she still has a penis.

And vice versa?

Personally, I think that transwidow is a rarely used term to describe a state that is niche. It is not an official definition in any sense. On any form she would be known as a divorcee. But if a woman chooses to refer to herself in those terms amongst her friends, it is no different from golf widow (although infinitely more painful).

It does not begin to compare with someone claiming to be a woman because she feels she has a uterus. Can I claim to be an angel because I feel I have a halo?

Chewbacca

And the fluidity of the meanings, causes of offenses, inclusivities and exclusivities always flows in one direction ....... misogyny. As you said Rosie51; shove up, shut up, do as you're told!

I'd object to transwidowers just as much Chewbacca where's the misogyny?

And a trnssman could claim to have a penis.

Can you define ‘claim to have’, in this context? It’s blowing my tiny mind.

A good example of how women's rights are being overridden by the rights of trans:

A woman, who asked to be seen by a female nurse when she went for a smear test, was embarrassed when she was allocated a person with 'stubble and a beard'.
Upon being called in for the procedure, the patient said she was 'distressed' to discover that the nurse was biologically male.
When she pointed out the mistake, the nurse responded that their gender was not male and that they were transsexual.

In her letter of complaint she wrote that, when booking the appointment, she had specifically requested a female nurse or practitioner.
She added: 'People who are not comfortable about this are presented as bigots and this is kind of how I was made to feel about it.'

Central and North West London NHS Foundation Trust said: 'We apologised to this patient for the recording error and because the staff member accepted they didn’t manage the situation appropriately or professionally; the patient needed to feel listened to.

It is hard to believe that someone who genuinely believes themselves to be female would present with stubble and a beard in any sort of professional situation. It sounds as though that was a power trip.

The case you mention in your post of 00:23, Chewbacca, is a friend of mine. ‘Embarrassed’ doesn’t go anywhere near how she actually felt.

I spoke of it at the time on GN and was roundly disbelieved that such thing had even occurred.

I thought it was about power too Doodledog. It would appear, from the statement issued by the hospital Trust, that the nurse had entered into some kind of disputory dialogue with the woman, hence she refused to go ahead with the examination and wrote a letter of complaint. If it hadn't been a power thing, the nurse would have acknowledged that another practitioner should be called and stepped away. Women are being challenged not to ask to have a female nurse for intimate examinations on peril of being labelled transphobic and bigots. Removal of choice and safe spaces. Again.

Oh SueDonim your poor friend. I feel so bloody angry about it all. How the hell did we not see this coming? It's like we sleep walked into it. And we're made to feel like transphobic bigots, just for asking "can I been seen by a female nurse/doctor please?" But it's fine as long as we don't upset the men.

I know. It is like a dystopian nightmare.

My heart goes out to your friend, SueDonim.

Funny that women whose husbands transition can be widows but women who transition can't even use the term "person with a cervix".

Women who transition can use whatever term they like. They are insisting, however, that their preferred term is to be the one used for everyone.