Men in women's changing rooms - not transwomen, ordinary men

Only women can be pregnant and trans men cannot bear children.

This shows that the confusing terminology used by trans activists is having the desired effect.
Transmen are biological females, who may, or may not, wish to or be able to get pregnant.
Transwomen are biological males.

A transman can be a pregnant person if that’s what appeals, rather than saying “I’m a pregnant woman”. The objection is when they want women to only be allowed to use pregnant person.

Exactly.
The terms for women don't need to be erased - extra terms for transmen can be included.

The only transman I know has transitioned surgically, so that is not an option. I do know if trying on clothes he would go to a men's changing room - and would pass completely. It's a huge journey to change so I'm sure no-one does it lightly. It goes well beyond the issue of surgery.

A transman is of no danger to male people. If the person passes as male there is no problem with them being in a men's changing room.

Likewise, a transwoman who passes as a woman will be unnoticed in a women's changing room if they do nothing out of the ordinary.

The OP, tho, is about plain men being in a women's changing room, which is a natural result of saying that any man who do chooses is to be accepted as a woman. He doesn't have to go on any 'journey' at all because a huge proportion of the population has been brainwashed into not even questioning such a man.

I would challenge the presence of such a man, FarNorth. I don't disagree with anything you've said and think you defined things very well.

I am most definitely going to hold onto the rights to use my feminine woman terminology for myself. I'll respect the right of anyone else to choose their own terminology as long as I have the same right, which I do.

CafeAuLait you are happy for anyone else to choose their own terminology yet you'd challenge men who have chosen the terminology of 'woman' but still present themselves as ordinary men do.

Of course, we don't know if the men in the OP had chosen any terminology other than 'men' but there they were in the women's changing room.

My head is spinning after reading this thread. ?

FarNorth

CafeAuLait you are happy for anyone else to choose their own terminology yet you'd challenge men who have chosen the terminology of 'woman' but still present themselves as ordinary men do.

Of course, we don't know if the men in the OP had chosen any terminology other than 'men' but there they were in the women's changing room.

If you went back and read, you would see that I'm not challenging these men calling themselves women at all. I said I'd be willing to be welcoming, unlike just about everyone else here. I do know someone who identifies as a woman but presents as male at present. I would challenge obvious men by mentioning it to the sales assistant, but not if they were trying on women's clothes or discreetly going about their business. Depends on context and these days, you never know. Knowing transgender people in person, I do try to be supportive and just accept them for who they are. Everyone has the right to choose their identity labels including myself. Mine are all traditionally feminine and I'm not taking that away from myself.

The OP, tho, is about plain men being in a women's changing room, which is a natural result of saying that any man who do chooses is to be accepted as a woman. He doesn't have to go on any 'journey' at all because a huge proportion of the population has been brainwashed into not even questioning such a man.
I understand the point you are making, and agree (perhaps unsurprisingly) that it is dangerous. If anyone, male or female, can be a woman, and if it is virtually impossible to get anyone other than a gender-critical feminist to define what a woman actually is, then being a woman is meaningless - women are meaningless.

If there is nowhere that women can go that is not accessible to males, then women from separatist religions will lose freedoms. Women without such religious beliefs will also lose freedoms, if they feel uncomfortable about having men in places where they feel vulnerable. Men, on the other hand can go where they like, and women are expected to just let them in. It's not difficult to imagine that there will be men who enjoy having that power over women.

A man who has transitioned and sees himself as a woman is likely to be accepted and included in most day to day activities as a woman. In my experience, most women are very accommodating on a personal level, and will not make transwomen feel uncomfortable unless there behaviour warrants it. It is not 'genuine transwomen' who are the issue, though - it is the men in the OP.

The idea that we can't question the right of men to be in our spaces on pain of being accused of transphobia is insidious. What's next? That we can't question their right to touch us?

What's next? That we can't question their right to touch us?

Lesbians already face harassment of that kind from men claiming to be lesbian women.

I am not prudish, but I am offended by men who ignore good manners just because they can. It is usually their wife or girlfriend who requires their silly opinion on some garment she is trying on.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202112/medium-819695-screenshot-20211212-192732.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202112/medium-686182-screenshot-20211212-192654.png

A bit of investigation by a male reporter :

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10300295/Bearded-6ft-reporter-let-female-changing-room-stores.html?fbclid=IwAR1j13_qpXqhIU9UVvQEjZ69dv3XzAxueo8qAjXK-e6ofy6FmDt_D0aaAF8