Perverted man claims to be a woman - may be housed in a women's prison

If a man wishes to live as a woman, I have no problem with that. I wouldn't "hate" him for it, or attack him with blows or words, or jeer at his dress sense. It is his life to live, and the persona in which he chooses to live it is his choice. (The same is true if a woman prefers to live as a man, but I will stick with one direction of transition for the moment)

However, I am aware of the inescapable fact that that persona is one created by his mind. The cells of his body don't have the freedom to change their composition. If they were male at the instant of conception, they are male throughout his life, and beyond when he is dead. Centuries from now, his bones will still be male.

His own mind can bypass this inconvenient truth because he wants it to, but he can't over-rule the knowledge in the minds of others that the biological sex of a human being is not altered by their desire to change. They can alter how they present, how they act and interact, and how they wish others to treat them, , they can have surgery and take hormones and they can live fulfilled lives in the community without friction, but it is not possible (at the moment, at least) to alter the way their DNA works, and DNA is the only completely foolproof evidence that someone is male or female.

Well done Elegran you have hit the nail on the head.

Your post, Elegran also makes mincemeat of the likes of Eddie Izzard’s claim that some days he wakes with his boy brain on and sometimes his girl brain. Imagine all those genes whizzing about rearranging themselves while he sleeps!

And me, perhaps if my biology teacher had been a good at explaining as you are Elegran I'd have got a better grade.

It's so obvious so why can't some understand?

Iam64

Thanks Elegran. That helped me have a better understanding of DnA

Me too.

And it also explains why the notion that nobody can tell who is trans and who isn't is nonsense.

Thanks Elegran. That helped me have a better understanding of DnA

If an unidentified skeleton of a man is discovered, without the living reactions which would reveal its sex, nor the sexual organs or the brain, the mere shape of the bones can help identify him as male, and if DNA can be recovered, that clinches it. He may have lived as a woman, but he was designed as a man.

Perfectly explained Elegran. No waffle, no cute fluffy kittens and unicorns from LaLa Land; just scientific facts.

VioletSky

Really Rosie?

So the only difference between men and women are genitals, nothing else on a physiological level?

I think you are confusing our minds as being something that only contains our personality, memory and inteligence and nothing else.

I'm different from men in many ways and I'm not ashamed of that, it doesn't make me "less than" I am still "equal too"

The difference is not "just" genitals, or brains, or any other single organ, It is that every cell in the millions (?billions, trillions?) in the body has a nucleus which contains an instruction book of "How to make and operate a human body" This is all encoded in the chromosomes, on the spirasl of DNA. One pair of chromosomes are either both the X type, the other are one X and one Y. If you have two Xs, the instructions say "This will be a female human", if they are one X, one Y, they say "This will be a male human"

These are the basic definitions which control the carrying out of the finer details in the DNA that influence the development of the sexual organs, production of hormones and, by their effect, of eggs or sperm, plus all the secondary sexual differences that are evident - the greater average height and strength of males, their facial hair, deeper voice, wider shoulders and narrower hips, different skull shape and eye sockets, different pelvic shape, and so on.

If an unidentified skeleton of a man is discovered, without the living reactions which would reveal its sex, nor the sexual organs or the brain, the mere shape of the bones can help identify him as male, and if DNA can be recovered, that clinches it. He may have lived as a woman, but he was designed as a man.

Which orders? GagaJo, you seem to see demands everywhere. If you mean my post above, there are no orders - it is a response to the ‘why me?’ question from VS, and is a description of how debates work. Scrolling back, I can’t see orders from anyone else, either .

GagaJo

VS, you're not obliged to obey those orders. Ignore it if you don't want to do it. This isn't work or school. It's supposed to be leisure!

Exactly VS. You do as GagaJo tells you. As she says, you don’t have to do anything you don’t want to do.
Rosie that’s a really important point people should remember.

VS, you're not obliged to obey those orders. Ignore it if you don't want to do it. This isn't work or school. It's supposed to be leisure!

VioletSky

Apparently I am the only one responsible for backing up what I say? I've read every posted link, I just haven't been asked what I think of them

I just hate all this point scoring nonsense

No, we all do it, unless we are referring to general knowledge (eg that people were executed for believing that the Earth moved around the Sun, or that males and females have different reproductive systems), or our own personal experience (eg that someone is looking at pronouns on a Zoom screen, or that they witnessed an historical event). Most people take that on trust, at least until contradictions start to show, in which case the contradictions are pointed out. Other than that, most of what we say is opinion, and when it’s not we back it up. It’s how debates work.

I don’t know why you think that you are treated differently all the time. You really aren’t.

As for point scoring - come on! When people start to ignore everything in your posts except for what they think are inaccuracies, then drone on about them even when the points have been shown to be accurate, or comment on the length of your posts because they can’t answer the questions posed, you might be justified in complaining about point scoring.

VioletSky

Everything will be OK.

Great! I'll message Kiera Bell and tell her that her distress at having transgendered with surgery, which she now realises was an abhorrent mistake, will be OK, VS says so! So comforting.... fluffy kittens....

VioletSky

Apparently I am the only one responsible for backing up what I say? I've read every posted link, I just haven't been asked what I think of them

I just hate all this point scoring nonsense

Point scoring, I agree. I wish you’d stop doing it.

Everything will be OK.

Apparently I am the only one responsible for backing up what I say? I've read every posted link, I just haven't been asked what I think of them

I just hate all this point scoring nonsense

VioletSky

doodledog I've explained how I found my results, my unbiased search parameters, (I did not look with bias I never do), and my findings, you've missed it typing an essay again

VS, your *unbiased search parameters*?? You may not look with bias, but you don’t see anything where people say that sex is immutable, or that the majority of trans do not want to become involved in violence or broadcast their gender preference.
I’m trying to find where on here someone said you are not different from a man, or that you should be ashamed of that, so that you need to say, “I’m different from men in many ways . . .
Women are different from men, they have fought for a long time to get equality, rights and safety from men who wish them harm.
I can’t understand how you can support that toxic minority of men, transwomen or even GJ’s pretend trans women who decide that by claiming to be women, it justifies them removing the equality women are still fighting for, overriding those hard won rights to jobs, safety and fairness just because they want to.
I can’t understand either, how you don’t see that it is harming those transwomen who are striving to live life as the gender they have chosen without wanting to harm women in any way.

Again rosie am not offended but I changed it to something that is actually a play on words

The word "bull" is sometimes used to mean the same thing, often followed by..... A type of poo

I was going to say it but decided against it

I work with children, I have to be careful, it's just second nature now

VioletSky

rosie men have and still do talk a lot of bull testicles at times

Bollocks, it's called bollocks, not 'bull testicles' I thought I'd explained bollocks is a vulgar term for any male testicles, not confined to the bovine. If bollocks offends you I'd suggest 'rubbish' as an alternative. Hope that helps

rosie men have and still do talk a lot of bull testicles at times

Doodledog

VS If you use an iPhone, click the 'share' icon at the top right, (the one with three sides of a square and an upwards arrow) and you will get an option to copy the url if there's not one at the top of the screen. It's ages since I had an Android phone, but I'm sure there will be a similar feature.

I promise it used to work, I know how to do it because thankfully I have a 7 year old to ask for my technological needs... It just does not appear on the clipboard afterwards.

Do you think that is a good enough excuse for a new phone? because this thing is a dinosaur

Well, it didn't say anything about "nice and supportive" in their lists of credentials so I wouldn't actually know doodledog

Do I believe that personal opinions sometimes affect these things? Well I remember that once we were told that vaccines cause autism and the tremendous damage that did and that woowoo parents are still trying to cure the children with bleach etc because they put their personal opinions above their own children and ignore scientific facts.

Do I believe scientists from multiple different sources have discovered gene differences without knowing their personal opinions? I am very open minded to that, I think that more research is needed and I will be open minded to more results.

VS If you use an iPhone, click the 'share' icon at the top right, (the one with three sides of a square and an upwards arrow) and you will get an option to copy the url if there's not one at the top of the screen. It's ages since I had an Android phone, but I'm sure there will be a similar feature.

VioletSky

Really Rosie?

So the only difference between men and women are genitals, nothing else on a physiological level?

I think you are confusing our minds as being something that only contains our personality, memory and inteligence and nothing else.

I'm different from men in many ways and I'm not ashamed of that, it doesn't make me "less than" I am still "equal too"

Are you really so unaware that some men used "lady brains" as a reason for women to be "less than"? Historically women have had to fight against the belief their biology rendered them "less than" As a lifelong advocate for female emancipation and equality I've always been aware of this attitude and have fought against women only too ready to acquiesce to male superiority. Look up the roots of 'hysteria' ... I'll save you the trouble ....
Hysterical. It's a word with a very female-baiting history, coming from the Latin hystericus ("of the womb"). This was a condition thought to be exclusive to women – sending them uncontrollably and neurotically insane owing to a dysfunction of the uterus (the removal of which is still called a hysterectomy).

VioletSky

doodledog I've explained how I found my results, my unbiased search parameters, (I did not look with bias I never do), and my findings, you've missed it typing an essay again

But regardless, you only believe the nice supportive scientists, so it doesn't matter about your parameters, which is what I asked in my essay.