Perverted man claims to be a woman - may be housed in a women's prison

Elegran

If a man wishes to live as a woman, I have no problem with that. I wouldn't "hate" him for it, or attack him with blows or words, or jeer at his dress sense. It is his life to live, and the persona in which he chooses to live it is his choice. (The same is true if a woman prefers to live as a man, but I will stick with one direction of transition for the moment)

However, I am aware of the inescapable fact that that persona is one created by his mind. The cells of his body don't have the freedom to change their composition. If they were male at the instant of conception, they are male throughout his life, and beyond when he is dead. Centuries from now, his bones will still be male.

His own mind can bypass this inconvenient truth because he wants it to, but he can't over-rule the knowledge in the minds of others that the biological sex of a human being is not altered by their desire to change. They can alter how they present, how they act and interact, and how they wish others to treat them, , they can have surgery and take hormones and they can live fulfilled lives in the community without friction, but it is not possible (at the moment, at least) to alter the way their DNA works, and DNA is the only completely foolproof evidence that someone is male or female.

Actually Elegran this is fundamentally wrong. All foetuses start off as female, male characteristcis develop at around 8 weeks. Some physical traces of the female remain in men, which would seem to indicate that some female traces may remain in the brain.
www.menshealth.com/health/a19516412/3-signs-you-started-as-a-girl/

He is a man

Yet scientists also now claim, with the right sample they could identify a trans women by their genes.

That is important, I know no one wants to admit it is so because it would have to change the way we think.

Anyway. Gagajo is right, this is supposed to be leisure and I'm going to find something more relaxing to discuss with my free time.

Best wishes all

I’m not sure that’s right Trisher. How does it explain how a boy with a faulty X chromosome goes on to develop Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy which is nothing to do with testosterone? It is all very complex and not as simple as that article makes out.

I remain un-reassured that Everything will be OK having read the recent advice that Mermaids is dishing out to young children who are embarking on the transition route. The youngsters are already in a confused and fragile state; trying to make sense of their feelings and how they fit in to society and with their peer groups. So it's alarming to know that the very group that's there to support them during their journey is telling them, during one of their frequent residential weekends:

One of the camp leaders stated: “outside of the venue’s doors, a war against trans people raged”.

This isn't the first time the trans activists/trans allies have referred to this as "a war"; I've seen it referred as such on this very forum; but I'm shocked and dismayed that vulnerable young people are being set up, by a charity that exists to help them, prepare them instead to view society as a war situation and for isolation and alienation, especially when teenagers are desperate to "fit in" and are already struggling with their confusion. The children's relationships with their families are also targeted:

One of the most chilling things I came across was a suggestion on their podcast that if parents are not fully supportive of a decision to transition that “family isn’t blood” and that children should create a “misgendering jar” at home so that they can “monetise pain”. No wonder parents are terrified about what their children are being exposed to.

So no, I really don't think that everything will be ok; I think that a whole generation of children will wonder why the hell they were enabled to buy into an ideology that ruined their lives and why the adults that were supposed to be there to protect them, failed so catastrophically.

Apologies to those who struggle with long posts.

Trisher I admire your constant research to prove you are right.
I don’t admire your inability to see the harm caused by a toxic minority of men, those TW with nefarious purposes or as GJ puts it, pretend trans plus those who support this toxic group. Harm which affects both females and the non-toxic trans community.
Men are not women.

There are more academic articles 25Avalon
This is stated in one of them
An important point is that early embryos of both sexes possess indifferent common primordia that have an inherent tendency to feminize unless there is active interference by masculinizing factors (Grumbach and Conte, 1998)
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK222286/
.

So let's consider the murder figures for women and transwomen. More natal born women than transwomen are murdered, but the majority of those murders are by partners or close relatives whereas the majority of transwomen are murdered by strangers in hate attacks.
It seems to me that the best way to reduce the murder rate for natal women is to research why women enter into abusive relationships and why they still fail to get out, then what support would enable them to avoid this happening.
The way to reduce transwomen is to encourage and develop understanding and acceptance of them. Which means stopping automatically bringing trans status into every debate about sex offenders. Children are not blamed for paedophiles. Transwomen should not be blamed for a sexual predator identifying as female.

With X chromosomes present as well as Y it is not surprising that is so. However, the Y chomosome presumably is one of the masculinising factors that kick in after the initial indeterminate period and affects the development of the foetus/embryo.

I dont. I dont blame my brother for sexual crimes committed by men. He still has no place in womens spaces.

Galaxy

I dont. I dont blame my brother for sexual crimes committed by men. He still has no place in womens spaces.

Is he a transwoman then?

"Transwomen should not be blamed for a sexual predator identifying as female." I don't see anyone blaming transwomen. However, the existence of transwomen and the publicity they have recently received, and the fact that transwomen convicted of a criminal offence can ask to go to a female prison, are inevitably known to sex offenders, and some will choose that as a route to (at a minimum) being locked up where they will at least see women, and perhaps, at the back of their minds, is the prospect of further intimacies with those women (whether they are willing or unwilling)

Actually Elegran this is fundamentally wrong. All foetuses start off as female, male characteristcis develop at around 8 weeks. Some physical traces of the female remain in men, which would seem to indicate that some female traces may remain in the brain.
Female traces of what?

This really is clutching at straws. The point is that whatever happens at 8 weeks' gestation, the average man is likely to be bigger, stronger and more aggressive than the average woman, and if he has already been guilty of sexual assault is clearly dangerous. If he has raped a dog, he is also capable of extremely deviant and taboo behaviour. Incarcerating him with a female prisoner because he has decided to move from John to Claire in the hope of getting an easier ride in prison is going to put the woman at serious risk, and the whole premise that allows even a possibility that this might happen is fundamentally flawed.

Yes, this is an unusual and extreme case, but it illustrates the way in which the it is possible to use the trans argument for nefarious purposes, and why an increasing number of feminists are realising that 'being kind', and accommodating has led to women being sold down the river.

Since 2009 there have been 9 transwomen killed in the UK, of those deaths 2 could I think be classed as hate crimes, although it is unclear whether one of them was more a homophobic hate crime. The rest were killed by punters or their partner/friend or linked to drugs. So in this country the majority of transwomen are murdered by strangers in hate attacks doesnt seem to be accurate. I dont think it is helpful to be telling transpeople something that isnt reflected in UK murder statistics.

The way to reduce transwomen is to encourage and develop understanding and acceptance of them. Which means stopping automatically bringing trans status into every debate about sex offenders. Children are not blamed for paedophiles. Transwomen should not be blamed for a sexual predator identifying as female.

I assume you mean 'the way to reduce the number of murders of transwomen'?

The comparison between transwomen and paedophiles is odious, and in any case doesn't stand up. Some children are victims of paedophiles, some of whom do blame the child for 'leading him on'.

Transwomen are not in remotely the same situation, and the situations are not remotely comparible. Trans status is not 'brought into every debate about sex offenders'. It is mentioned when the offender has feigned (or otherwise used) trans status to get access to victims - of course it is.

trisher

There are more academic articles 25Avalon
This is stated in one of them
An important point is that early embryos of both sexes possess indifferent common primordia that have an inherent tendency to feminize unless there is active interference by masculinizing factors (Grumbach and Conte, 1998)
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK222286/
.

Love this one. Active interference by masculinizing factors.
Just what we’re pointing out later on in life trisher. Females have have fought for women’s rights, in jobs and competitions and the right to safe spaces and here come the toxic transwomen (men) with more active interference in those areas, claiming that because they say they are women, their needs should override those of females.
What a title that would be.
Toxic TW and their supporters use active interference by masculinizing factors to override the rights of females!

An extract from the article on why women prisoners are afraid of sharing their space with trans:

She said that all bar one of the male prisoners she had encountered, who were so much bigger and stronger than she, had been convicted of sexual offences. She told me that almost all retained their male genitalia: she knew that they did because they often liked to show them off, either by wearing tight clothing or by moving the shower curtain to one side when showering.

She told me about the sexual assaults she had both experienced and witnessed. She reported that sexually aggressive and physically threatening behaviour is run-of-the-mill and simply to be expected.

However, what shocked me the most was when she told me in a completely matter-of-fact voice, we have to call them ‘she’ and use their female names and if we don’t we get a punishment. Even the ones who are sexual offenders?! Yes. Even the ones who show off their penises in the shower with you?! Yes. If we don’t we get a punishment.

Shocking Chewbacca. That’s even worse than the demerits girls at my GD’s Girls’ school get if they use the wrong pronoun for a girl who has suddenly decided she’s a boy.

Well don't worry about it Mollygo because we have it on good authority that everything's going to be OK.

Thanks Chewbacca. That’s a relief.???

Well, that’s good to know, Chewbacca. I can get back to my embroidery and fluffy kittens now!

For me Doodledog "the point is that whatever happens at weeks' gestation" the baby that is delivered approximately 7 months later is either male, becoming a man in adulthood or female, becoming a woman in adulthood.

I haven't seen anyone on this thread blaming transwomen for a male sexual predator identifying as a woman. Why have you introduced this into the discussion when it is totally irrelevant?

Two posts with disturbing and worrying content Chewbacca, how on earth anyone can claim 'everything's going to be OK' is beyond my comprehension.

sorry the question in the second paragraph of my post is for trisher.

‘It seems to me the best way to reduce the murder rate for natal women is to research why women enter into abusive relationships and why they still fail to get out, then what support would enable them to avoid this happening’. Trisha today at 12.57

Your call yourself a feminist yet make the above statement? There is a good body of research on the issues you refer to. The Freedom Project was set up by many local authorities with the aim of supporting the women you speak of. I found the way you describe the lives of women who find themselves locked into abusive relationships, or a succession of such relationships dismissive of those women.

Another obvious area of research would be why so many men murder women. Men murder women they target, like the Henry sisters, or Sara E. they murder women the profess to love. Two women each week are murdered, mostly by partners or men they’re trying to leave, usually after prolonged abuse at their hands.

But oh yes, let’s put it at the door of ‘natal women’

That's a pretty astounding comment from Trisher.