Perverted man claims to be a woman - may be housed in a women's prison

trisher

Rosie51 I think I have posted so many times about what is wrong with the sports regulations as they now stand I have actually just lost interest. But if you want to address why women like Caster Semenya have been banned from competing, how black women are penalised and the general inequality of women's sport then a good place to begin would be to abandon the preconceptions about women's physique. Because black women athletes are different to white women athletes. It is impossible to create a completely level playing field for all international sport but just chucking out transwomen will do nothing at all to help women like Caster.
That has always been and remains my position . Sort things out for women who are suffering discrimination then you can move on to looking at other factors.

So you aren't concerned about the unfairness being perpetuated by Lia Thomas's cheating? That must be allowed to continue until Caster gets to compete. What an odd position to take, when the unfairness of transwomen in women's sport can be so easily rectified. Remove that unfairness and then 100% attention can be given to these other areas. You can't possibly believe it's fair competition when one athlete finishes 38 seconds ahead of their supposed equal opposition? Why would you want to allow that and even encourage more?

Sort things out for women who are suffering discrimination then you can move on to looking at other factors. you are aware that the people being cheated by Lia Thomas are women aren't you?

???GagaJo, read the original post and find out what it has to do with trans.
I actually agreed with your post 25.12.21 when you said real transwomen wouldn’t commit crimes, so are all those who cheat, override females rights and use claims of being transwomen to cause harm, or distress to females only your pretend-transwomen? Or do you choose to allow some TW who do that sort of thing to be real transwomen?

GagaJo

And anyway, what has all this got to do with a pervet? He is not a trans anything. He's a child molester and an animal abuser.

NOTHING to do with trans, whatever bile spews out of his mouth.

He's a child molester and an animal abuser who tried to use the trans agenda as a way to get incarcerated with women. That is what he has to do with trans.

How he chooses to present, or how he identifies is irrelevant to his perversion, I agree; but it is very relevant to this thread.

Yet, he claims to be a trans woman.

trisher

^We know you don't care what people think, or how you come across, but even so - the nasty digs just detract from any points you try to make.^
Isn't it funny how some people are allowed to say whatever they like but others are condemned because they support fair treatment and are against discrimination and don't like prejudice and hatred?

It just shows that those who would discriminate against one group of people because they are different will then condemn anyone who supports them. And that's how it always works. You all know the poem don't you? "First they came"

No, you are twisting my words again?.

Everyone is 'allowed' to say what they like. My point was that digs such as 'rant', or 'people who hate difference and change' are the sort of thing used against women to silence them. Men are forceful: women 'rant'. A woman is not being 'kind' (the ultimate control online) so she is acting out of 'hate'. No, I'm not. I don't hate anyone. I just don't agree with the idea that womanhood is an optional 'presentation', that you can try on like a cheesecloth shirt if you fancy presenting as a hippy.

Then you come along with a (false) assumption about my motive for speaking out - it's not because GagaJo 'supports fair treatment and is against discrimination and doesn't like prejudice and hatred'. Not at all. There is more prejudice in her posts than in the majority on threads like these put together.

Your false assumption inevitably, therefore, leads to an equally false conclusion (complete with its own snide dig) that I would discriminate against people because they are different, and condemn anyone who supports them. I don't discriminate on grounds of difference, and nor do I issue blanket condemnations.

Yes, I know the poem. How far removed from Godwin's Law is bringing it into a discussion like this? Suggesting that I (and/or others) have Nazi tendencies is insulting, even by your standards.

And anyway, what has all this got to do with a pervet? He is not a trans anything. He's a child molester and an animal abuser.

NOTHING to do with trans, whatever bile spews out of his mouth.

Oh and since you discriminate against females I don’t see how your point about those who discriminate against one group of people because they are different, holds water.

Et tu brute, by your constant support of ‘all’ transwomen and your belief that they can become or are female.

We know you don't care what people think, or how you come across, but even so - the nasty digs just detract from any points you try to make.
Isn't it funny how some people are allowed to say whatever they like but others are condemned because they support fair treatment and are against discrimination and don't like prejudice and hatred?

It just shows that those who would discriminate against one group of people because they are different will then condemn anyone who supports them. And that's how it always works. You all know the poem don't you? "First they came"

No GagJo, they’re not mythical, they exist and you demonstrate that by your support of ‘all’ transwomen.

I personally think those with dsd s have been treated disgracefully by pretty much everyone on both 'sides' of the debate.

Those with dsds have begged not to be brought into this discussion so I try and avoid it. But the Caster Semenya decision is actually about one of 5 xy dsds which are covered by the ban.

GagaJo

*The TW who cheat, cause harm to females and take what rightfully belongs to females, and even worse, those like you who, seeing what that toxic minority do, commend them for it, harm both women and the transwomen who do none of those things.*

Who are those people you're referring to? They're mythical. From the fevered imaginations of those that hate difference and change.

Every single trans person I have met (other than the non-binary) are just desperately trying to blend in. Pass. Be unobtrusive.

When were you last accosted by one of those threats, that you rant about?

'Those people' are the likes of sports people who grab an unfair advantage. They are people who want to erase the idea of what it is to be a woman, to silence and threaten people who disagree with the idea that it is possible to change sex.

Every trans person I have met would also like to 'pass', but the TWAW - No Debate agenda, and the mangling of the language, and the insistence on everyone declaring pronouns and so on have made that more difficult for them. It may be that the transpeople you know are a discrete group, though, if they have never come up against people who don't believe that TWAW. The ones I know are well aware that there are a range of views, and the ones with whom I have discussed it actually agree that they are transwomen, not women, and are happy with that.

You don't do your arguments any favours by accusing anyone who crosses you of 'ranting', 'hating difference and change', and similar, incidentally. You aren't dealing with impressionable people on here - we are all used to dealing with insults used as attempts to silence women, and they really are like water off a duck's back.

We know you don't care what people think, or how you come across, but even so - the nasty digs just detract from any points you try to make.

Chewbacca

How can the physiology of these 2 people be classed as fair competitors?

That's exactly the argument white women athletes used against Caster Semenya when she won her first race aged 18. Since then she has been subjected to a barrage of tests and is currently banned because she has naturally high testosterone levels. If she wants to compete she must take drugs to lower that. Her physique is different a lot of black women have different physiques to white women.

Iam64

Can I go back a bit to trisha’s references to butch lesbians. I have many lesbian friends- one a truck driver, another a bus driver. They don’t wear frocks or lipstick like some lesbians but I’ve never heard them referred to as ‘butch’
I thought that description disappeared fifty years ago

A great analysis of "butch" its history and present use if you are interested www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/13/t-magazine/butch-stud-lesbian.html

I have just watched the threat on the swimming race. My swimming doesnt get much beyond a slow 100m so no I didnt experience it personally but I am able to fight for things which dont impact me personally. I thankfully have never experienced domestic violence, I still talk and campaign about its impact.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202201/medium-329369-1641038281671.jpg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202201/medium-87498-1641038167319.jpg

How can the physiology of these 2 people be classed as fair competitors?

Rosie51 I think I have posted so many times about what is wrong with the sports regulations as they now stand I have actually just lost interest. But if you want to address why women like Caster Semenya have been banned from competing, how black women are penalised and the general inequality of women's sport then a good place to begin would be to abandon the preconceptions about women's physique. Because black women athletes are different to white women athletes. It is impossible to create a completely level playing field for all international sport but just chucking out transwomen will do nothing at all to help women like Caster.
That has always been and remains my position . Sort things out for women who are suffering discrimination then you can move on to looking at other factors.

The TW who cheat, *cause harm to females and take what rightfully belongs to females, and even worse, those like you who, seeing what that toxic minority do, commend them for it, harm both women and the transwomen who do none of those things.*

Who are those people you're referring to? They're mythical. From the fevered imaginations of those that hate difference and change.

Every single trans person I have met (other than the non-binary) are just desperately trying to blend in. Pass. Be unobtrusive.

When were you last accosted by one of those threats, that you rant about?

Iam64

Can I go back a bit to trisha’s references to butch lesbians. I have many lesbian friends- one a truck driver, another a bus driver. They don’t wear frocks or lipstick like some lesbians but I’ve never heard them referred to as ‘butch’
I thought that description disappeared fifty years ago

It definitely didn't. A quick Google will evidence that.

Are people really so naive as to think a transman will compete with, win and smash sporting records against natal men? Or are the supporters of transgender athletes really only concerned with men who transgender to women?
I won't hold my breath for any answers from GagaJo or trisher, both of whom seem to studiously avoid every point I make on this issue.

Oh and if that post gets removed or me banned, I’ll know it hit home.

Ooh GJ, trisher etc. if we’re going to quote religious texts then read Matthew 7:3. It will tell you to take the beam out of your own eye before pointing out the speck in someone else’s.
The TW who cheat, cause harm to females and take what rightfully belongs to females, and even worse, those like you who, seeing what that toxic minority do, commend them for it, harm both women and the transwomen who do none of those things.

I don’t give a sh*t how you see yourself or whether you care what others think of you either, but I read your posts and am minded of a Robert Burns poems

Can I go back a bit to trisha’s references to butch lesbians. I have many lesbian friends- one a truck driver, another a bus driver. They don’t wear frocks or lipstick like some lesbians but I’ve never heard them referred to as ‘butch’
I thought that description disappeared fifty years ago

Also, I don't think she was linking her POV to her religion. She was pointing out that she is not anti-trans, but anti unfair behaviour.