Wokeness

I am very liberal but I've never used the word "woke" and I have never seen the word "woke" used as anything other than an insult

I wish I knew what it means

Yes it certainly seems to have a rather negative meaning. A bit like 'snowflakes'. We all seem to be more 'precious' these days and God forbid if anyone is offended in any way!!

Well put!
I've been uncomfortable with the term for some time myself and some what nervous about saying anything for fear of being labeled racist. My grandson's generation is very quick to criticise the smallest hint from me of disapproval about the conduct of 'ethnic' people too.
For instance, what do I call people of other races if I'm to be woke? Are they black? coloured? ethnic? what? I'm white - thats fine with me, and I don't even care if I'm called 'honkey' - does it really matter?

I've always thought that 'woke' is a label used to undermine an opinion or person by people who can't be bothered or are unable to accurately frame a proper argument.

If woke means awake to social injustice then surely most of us are, aren't we? I'm sure very few people would be happy to come out and say 'Nope, I don't care at all about social injustice I want people to be oppressed and for the poor to stay poor.'

This is the original meaning of 'woke' as explained by wikipedia:

Woke (/ˈwoʊk/ WOHK) is an English adjective meaning 'alert to racial prejudice and discrimination' that originated in African-American Vernacular English (AAVE). Beginning in the 2010s, it came to encompass a broader awareness of social inequalities such as sexism, and has also been used as shorthand for left-wing ideas involving identity politics and social justice, such as the notion of white privilege and slavery reparations for African Americans.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke

Now that it has been conscripted into the culture wars being fostered by our populist far right government it seems to me that it is best ignored and left to die. It's just another version of 'political correctness' and is an equally vacuous buzzword used to raise people's annoyance and indignation levels to ridiculous levels so as to set one section of the population against another.

I'd say, let it go and don't give it any brain space

I dont think you can discuss the many issues this covers under the word woke. I dont know how helpful it is. So I would like to think I am interested in social injustice but I think some example of what could be classed as 'wokeness' impact adversely on the most vulnerable in our society.

Excellent post Coastpath.

MaizieD

This is the original meaning of 'woke' as explained by wikipedia:

Woke (/ˈwoʊk/ WOHK) is an English adjective meaning 'alert to racial prejudice and discrimination' that originated in African-American Vernacular English (AAVE). Beginning in the 2010s, it came to encompass a broader awareness of social inequalities such as sexism, and has also been used as shorthand for left-wing ideas involving identity politics and social justice, such as the notion of white privilege and slavery reparations for African Americans.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke

Now that it has been conscripted into the culture wars being fostered by our populist far right government it seems to me that it is best ignored and left to die. It's just another version of 'political correctness' and is an equally vacuous buzzword used to raise people's annoyance and indignation levels to ridiculous levels so as to set one section of the population against another.

I'd say, let it go and don't give it any brain space

This

Well I'm very unwoke at the moment enjoying a coffee and a horror of horrors, a cigarette

As far as I am concerned it is just another 4 letter word. They don’t use it much here. We are still sleeping I suppose.

Coastpath

I've always thought that 'woke' is a label used to undermine an opinion or person by people who can't be bothered or are unable to accurately frame a proper argument.

If woke means awake to social injustice then surely most of us are, aren't we? I'm sure very few people would be happy to come out and say 'Nope, I don't care at all about social injustice I want people to be oppressed and for the poor to stay poor.'

Exactly. Those that throw 'woke' around as an insult would have been saying 'political correctness gone mad' 10 or 15 years ago.

A way to undermine those those want to try to make positive changes to the world. Or a remark that shows resentment about not being able to be offensive about minority groups freely in public anymore.

I agree with the OP exactly. Woke may have started in a worthwhile manner but has morphed into something else. People who lecture about climate change but take private jets, people who think transgender people are more important than everyone else, people who look for racism where there is none.

Woke is when Morris Dancers, who have been blacking their faces for the last 500 years are expected to paint them green because someone says it's racist, when it has nothing to do with black skin.

I think, though Gagajo that it is a certain group or groups who have undermined the term and given it a different meaning.

Being truly 'woke' should not mean replacing one set of rights for another, intimidating and threatening people who say something you don't agree with or trying to silence those who have different views to yours. That is dictatorship not tolerance and open mindedness.

‘Woke’ ‘Snowflake’ ‘Precious’ ... I now can’t stand the words!
EllanV Same here minus the cigarette!

But if the groups that are being free with their speech, are doing so negatively about another group (think ethnicity, age, sex/gender, nationality/physical ability), then it is right that they are challenged. Calling those that challenge racism/ageism/ableism/sexism 'woke' is just a way of undermining bigotry.

It isn't the same, calling someone white, honkey. Because white people are in the socially privileged position. They have more social power. It isn't a like for like encounter, using 'honkey' and the N word.

We should always challenge bigotry. It isn't 'wokeness' or 'political correctness gone mad'. It is attempting to work towards equality for all.

It's not 'challenging' someone to post death threats, or post porn on a thread aimed at children because you dont agree with their view point, it's not challenging people to try and get black lesbian women fired, it's not challenging that the greatest ire is aimed at women that's just old fashioned sexism.

And it's certainly not challenging to tell women that that isnt happening and is part of some right wing government culture war. To use another much used word I would say that's gaslighting.

Gagajo How do you feel about men insisting on using women's changing facilities because they've decided to identify as a woman? Does the discomfort of the women not count?

The examples you give are those that prompted the initial woke movement, aimed at challenging intolerance and prejudice.

That is very different from imposing a new set of 'rights' while trampling over the rights of another group.

I worked in a mixed ethnic area in my twenties. On a daily basis I was called a white honkey I just had to tolerate it and not react. The word woke wasn't around then it's an Americanism. Being subjected to racism personally I don't need a buzz word to make me aware of it.

Gagajo
or a remark that shows resentment about not being able to be offensive about minority groups freely in public anymore

I couldn’t agree with you more because I am one of those people who would be very very offensive if/when I walk in a changing room with my granddaughter and there’s a male in his boxers standing there. But I, as a woman am not allowed to be offended, am I. ?

Ah, so this actually another post using the acts of criminals or extreme voices to undermine sensibly voiced and worthy causes by people who just want equal rights and equality of opportunity.

VioletSky

Ah, so this actually another post using the acts of criminals or extreme voices to undermine sensibly voiced and worthy causes by people who just want equal rights and equality of opportunity.

Unfortunately sensibly voiced causes seem to be in the minority these days. I’m all for equal rights and opportunity for all, but it can never be right to establish the rights of one section of the community at the expense of another.

It is not 'extreme voices' or 'criminals' who are allowing men into women's changing rooms, it's the very shops where women buy their clothes.