Prince Andrew Can't Sweat

Thanks trisher, clear well informed post
Annie- you have your views on this. It doesn’t matter what anyone says they don’t change

Ditto Iam

I think I have said this before but there are a number of countries if I remember rightly where the law differentiates between 2 17 year olds having sex and say a 40 year old and a 17 year old having sex. There are really good safeguarding reasons for this.
And everything that Trisher said about trafficking.

The best comment I have seen on this topic is:

"People saying things along the lines of 'If what Prince Andrew did was wrong then every woman I know has experienced something like that', are so close to seeing the truth."

Galaxy

I think I have said this before but there are a number of countries if I remember rightly where the law differentiates between 2 17 year olds having sex and say a 40 year old and a 17 year old having sex. There are really good safeguarding reasons for this.
And everything that Trisher said about trafficking.

Actually I think the sex with a seventeen year old boy is much more likely to be an experience of being “used” than with a mature man who is a considerate and not desperate to just get his end away.

I really can’t see how the age of the sexual partner is relevant in judging someone as a “user”.

She was brought to this country for the purpose of having sex with Epstein's friends, one of whom was PA.

You do not know this, unless you mean: one of Epstein's friends was Prince Andrew, (undisputed).
You do not know that she was brought to the country for the purpose of having sex with Prince Andrew and you certainly do not know whether she did or not.

Could it be she asked to go to England and meet Andrew ? Her
friend said she was very excited.

Perish the thought Annie. It destroys the victim image. But 'I got to have sex with him' has already done that, if nothing else had. Rather like a groupie with a well known rock band.

Germanshepherdsmum

I thought her father took her to London?
My take on people who are trafficked is that they can’t escape from their masters, for instance modern slaves who owe huge amounts to those controlling them and are physically kept captive. I see none of this with VG who was free to come and go (back to the man she was living with).

Well your definition is too narrow for the anti-slavery movement.
Do you really not regard girls under 18 being offered money, taken to expensive venues, accommodated in the homes of rich people, coerced into having sex ,and moved from one venue to another for this purpose as trafficking?
www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/human-trafficking/
Human trafficking is the process of trapping people through the use of violence, deception or coercion and exploiting them for financial or personal gain.

eazybee

*She was brought to this country for the purpose of having sex with Epstein's friends, one of whom was PA*.

You do not know this, unless you mean: one of Epstein's friends was Prince Andrew, (undisputed).
You do not know that she was brought to the country for the purpose of having sex with Prince Andrew and you certainly do not know whether she did or not.

Of course Andrew was Epstein's friend he said so himself when he admitted going to his house after Epstein had been convicted of soliciting prostitution from a minor and served his sentence.

In VG’s circumstances no I don’t. Do you have evidence of violence, deception or coercion?

Not the best example the behaviour of rock bands with teenage fans was frequently deeply exploitative, Bill Wyman being a prime example.

But I bet they were willing and boasted about it?

With regard to Bill wyman she was 13. Do you believe in no age of consent?

Germanshepherdsmum

In VG’s circumstances no I don’t. Do you have evidence of violence, deception or coercion?

So basically you are saying if a girl is offered money and persuaded to have sex, unless she is beaten, locked up or otherwise abused that's fine. Do you have a particular age when a girl will have the ability to give consent to this? Does this mean that as they offer money rich men are not sex trafficking girls? Do only poor men do it?

A 13 year old and Bill Wyman ,who ever he is,

Yes she was under the age of consent

Was she forced ? Or was she excited and told her friends ?

Germanshepherdsmum

But I bet they were willing and boasted about it?

Would you persist in this view if we were discussing the 3 girls featured in the tv drama of the Rochdale girls?
Many posters on this forum insisted the girls enjoyed drugs, drink, sex with the men exploiting them.

She married him. Years later she campaigned for the age of consent to raised because of what had happened to her.

From the anti-slavery website People trapped by traffickers are mostly trying to escape poverty or discrimination, improve their lives and support their families
Many of the girls used by Epstein were from poor homes.

Some posts here show a frightening level of denial/misunderstanding of coercion, exploitation and abuse.

You twist my words to suit your agenda trisher.
Iam that is not what we are discussing.

In your opinion, it’s not what we are discussing

We are discussing VG. Anyway discuss whomsoever you wish, my evening beckons.

Many posts on here show many believe all girls in their teens are incapable of telling lies, never capable of entering any relationship by choice , would never have a one night stand by choice, are pure as the driven snow and any male involved with them is a lech,

I am afraid that what we feel is irrelevant annie. The law is what matters.