It happens before children arrive as well.
A super-quick, easy dinner for Gdcs when you’ve all been out all day and they’re ‘starving’….
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Prince Andrew Can't Sweat
(1001 Posts)Doing wrong is not black and white even in law.
My own father who of course had never heard of Prince Andrew, could not sweat. My mother , who had never heard of Prince Andrew, told me this when I was was girl . My mother did not explain about the adrenaline thing as she had no medical knowledge, but after Andrew's admission about not sweating . I can understand how hormones are affected by some severe life events. My father was at the Eastern Front during the Great War.
Also in support of Prince Andrew, he probably did not even know that it was illegal or even immoral to shag an unknown and poor seventeen year old girl. Very rich people have odd childhoods, and it takes special efforts by parents and teachers to teach them what real life is.
There aren't always children in the marital home.
Anniebach I wish I had the right words to explain this all to you, I generally feel in this type of situation those words must be there somewhere... That you must be able to understand how abuse reprogrammes a mind, how a person can fall into such a trap, how people aren't born to certain lives by default, they are shaped to them by adverse experiences and abusers who don't have their best interests at heart.
No one seems to have the right words to change your mind.
I think that is a shame for abuse victims everywhere. Because sometimes we ask for help and if the first person we reach out too says the wrong thing, it causes untold damage
I am not discussing marital rape nor abuse within the home; I am talking about a girl who is employed, finds the conditions of that employment unpleasant yet continues to perform as required, but does not appear to be under threat, intimidation or coercion.
I stand to be corrected but I have only heard of enticement, grooming and procurement; VG was not living on the premises, but apparently with her father and /or her boyfriend, so a place of safety to which she could return. Not lying in bed dreading the sound of footsteps stopping outside the bedroom door, as one abused person described it to me.
It doesn’t seem to matter how many people describe their personal experience of sexual abuse in childhood, their experience of working with sexually exploited/trafficked people, or the academic research that explains why ‘they’ return to situations they later and correctly, say were abusive.
It seems easier to take the simplistic view that some girls are just bad.
And no 17 year old can lie
VioletSky I can understand how you can feel deeply distressed by my posts, and am sorry they caused you distress.
I am speaking of one woman not all women, I do not believe
Giuffrie , I do believe the woman who was a witness at Maxwell’s trial.
I do believe Giuffrie slept with Andrew.
Whilst it’s not illegal to have sex from 16 onwards in this country, in New York it’s illegal unless a person is 18. To me that seems straightforward, what Andrew did in New York was illegal. That is, assuming he did have sex with a girl who was 17 at the time. Whether or not she was willing, it was still illegal.
However if they had sex in London as claimed, it was not illegal. I don’t know anything about the laws on the island where she claimed it also happened.
The age of consent in New York is 17. Up to 2017 it was 14.
eazybee
I am not discussing marital rape nor abuse within the home; I am talking about a girl who is employed, finds the conditions of that employment unpleasant yet continues to perform as required, but does not appear to be under threat, intimidation or coercion.
I stand to be corrected but I have only heard of enticement, grooming and procurement; VG was not living on the premises, but apparently with her father and /or her boyfriend, so a place of safety to which she could return. Not lying in bed dreading the sound of footsteps stopping outside the bedroom door, as one abused person described it to me.
This seems to be a post asking that prostitution be legalised. Because that was what Epstein paid her for, to have sex with the men he chose.
eazybee do you seriously believe that girls as young as 14 were not manipulated and controlled by Epstein?
ONLY ‘enticement, grooming and procurement’. Really? This thread has sunk to a new low.
Germanshepherdsmum
The age of consent in New York is 17. Up to 2017 it was 14.
I didn’t know that GSM. I’ve read it’s 18 and so I thought that was the case. If it’s 17 it may put a slightly different light on things.
However if VG was paid, it becomes prostitution. Is that illegal in New York?
eazybee
I am not discussing marital rape nor abuse within the home; I am talking about a girl who is employed, finds the conditions of that employment unpleasant yet continues to perform as required, but does not appear to be under threat, intimidation or coercion.
I stand to be corrected but I have only heard of enticement, grooming and procurement; VG was not living on the premises, but apparently with her father and /or her boyfriend, so a place of safety to which she could return. Not lying in bed dreading the sound of footsteps stopping outside the bedroom door, as one abused person described it to me.
Do we know for certain that Giuffrie was actually in 'a place of safety' when living with her boyfriend or father? I can't help thinking that someone of that age making those life choices might not have had what we would consider to be a healthy or safe safe relationship with either of them.
I haven't followed the case in detail, so don't know the answer. I wouldn't be surprised though if she was as much a victim of them as she was of Epstein.
Apparently prostitution is a grey area in the UK.
Trafficking is a crime regardless of age .WHY do people refuse to accept the fact .I'm fairly sure she didn't have a private jet and arrive under her own steam to sleep with the sweat free Andrew .
This is not a criminal case.
paddyann54
Trafficking is a crime regardless of age .WHY do people refuse to accept the fact .I'm fairly sure she didn't have a private jet and arrive under her own steam to sleep with the sweat free Andrew .
The perception seems to be that if it is a private jet and a comfy house it can't possibly be trafficking and the girl is just in it for the money paddyann54 regardless of what else goes on. Honestly it really is disgusting. I know completely understand how rich men get away with stuff. I'm just thinking that these people are mothers and grandmothers and if this is what they believe what have they taught their sons and grandsons?
"now not know" sometimes other letters seem to get in there when I type quickly!
paddyann and trisher
??
I really can't be bothered any more as it just continues the misconceptions.
You know if this argument was on the covid thread and a poster continued to deny something that is scientifically and legally documented it would be taken down.
Good point Whitewave
?????? Paddynan, trisher and Whitewave.
You’re c0rrect Calistemon, there is no point
" if Miss Giuffre was so badly abused - why is she looking so radiantly happy in her very skimpy little top in the photograph with Andrew. Please don't shoot me down - I am seriously confused by this."
The happy smiles all round seem genuine, it's true. It is wrong seduce a girl into the belief that an activity is good for her, when it is really bad for her.
I wonder if Epstein made a substantial trust fund for each of these girls against the time she would no longer be of use to him.
Blossoming
ONLY ‘enticement, grooming and procurement’. Really? This thread has sunk to a new low.
I agree. No wonder people don't speak up about their own experiences.
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