Prince Andrew Can't Sweat

Giuffrie’s defence team claim there are witnesses, so did Andrew have sex with her whilst people watched ?

The two prison guards who made false records when on suicide watch with Epstein have been let off, who can be believed.

Was Giuffrie coerced by the chap she was living with at the time she was with Epstein.

Has the pilot of Epstein’s private plane been charged, or any of Epstein’s staff .

Can witnesses who have only now come forward for the Giuffrie v Andrew case be believed

Germanshepherdsmum

As did VG IMO.

But you continually miss the point.

IT IS AGAINST THE LAW.

It is totally immaterial whether any of the children went with apparent choice or not.

Nothing else matters. If you were sat in the jury, you would make a decision on whether Maxwell, Epstein and the numerous men had broken the law.

Sufficient evidence was given to judge that Epstein and Maxwell broke the law and were found guilty of the charges against them. De facto so did the men.

You are missing the point wwm. This is about VG’s civil claim against PA. The criminal case against GM has been concluded apart from the sentencing.

But the case will undoubtedly have a bearing on VGs case.

We now know that Maxwell and Epstein were guilty of sex trafficking and under age sex.

That had not been established until this week.

Anniebach

She wasn’t called as a witness against Maxwell yet she claims it
was Maxwell who introduced her to Epstein.

One of the victims also testified that it was VG herself who introduced her (the victim) at 14 to Epstein.

I would expect a jury to consider not just what was illegal but also the circumstances in which the law had been broken. In this case that would surely include the facts that no complaint was made until several years after the event and that there is no evidence of coercion.

No one is denying that the whole case is sordid in the extreme, but the jury should search for justice not revenge.

Whitewave anyone can now sue anyone because they knew
Epstein and Maxwell ?

winterwhite There are many cases of historic sex abuse brought before the courts every year. Years, even decades, may have gone by before the victim actually made a complaint about their abuser. That may be for any number of reasons and it does not lessen the actual abuse.

VG only just managed to commence her action against PA before it would have become statute barred.

Probably due to him hiding away, as you do when falsely accused.

If a milkman had been accused of rape I Doubt the press would be flashing cameras every time he appeared in public.

Well, along with the considerable privilege enjoyed by the mega rich, comes the fact that people are going to be interested.

The delay in starting the action was nothing to do with PA ‘hiding’ MissA. She had left it to the last minute. You’re confusing commencement of the action with the much commented on delay in service of papers.

She left it to the last minute, then.
Not a crime.

And the milkman wouldn’t have been rich enough for her to bother pursuing Annie.

Anniebach

If a milkman had been accused of rape I Doubt the press would be flashing cameras every time he appeared in public.

But if one is rich and famous - through being a Royal or a celebrity - one cannot expect anonymity if involved (however marginally) in something newsworthy. Downsides / perks

Yes so sensible to avoid the cameras. I am surprised the reason many want Andrew to be guilty is because he is wealthy. Have wealth seems to a crime too.

Quite so Annie. If he were a commoner there would be little interest and if he had little money VG wouldn’t bother suing him.

I doubt that fundamentally ‘many want Andrew to be guilty’ - let’s face it, whatever one’s views on the monarchy, it’s embarrassing as a nation to have a Royal involved in any way with a court case such as this. It would be hard to deny that over the years Andrew has not presented himself in the best light, so has not exactly gained a fan club willing to feel sorry for him

Andrew was heroic in the Falklands War. Had he been an ordinary serviceman he would have been decorated for bravery. I don’t find the saga embarrassing to me as a British person, however I do believe he lied in the tv interview and I’m sorry for his mother and other close family members.

People have always been invested in lucid tales, whether they're about the bloke up the road, or war heroes.

Interested. Lurid.

I think you and I are never going to see eye to eye, Germanshpeherdsmum, on this or much else!

I’m sure we’ll find something we agree on Kathy. ?

Kathy73

I doubt that fundamentally ‘many want Andrew to be guilty’ - let’s face it, whatever one’s views on the monarchy, it’s embarrassing as a nation to have a Royal involved in any way with a court case such as this. It would be hard to deny that over the years Andrew has not presented himself in the best light, so has not exactly gained a fan club willing to feel sorry for him

He was born on my 11th birthday which so impressed one of my Grannies that she gave me an extra half a crown. About the only thing he has been any good for.