What will happen to our towns if we all shop online?

daily focussed? I typed 'usually focussed'. Another Autocratic Autocorrect Aberration!

My town has a lot of coffee shops too. People moan when a new one opens, but on the whole they are full, and help towards giving the place a community feel.

They are great for older people, and for parents dropping off children at school, but not great for a lot of people between school age and retirement - there should be more for this group, IMO, and it should not depend on having disposable income or necessarily involve alcohol.

We used to have a cinema, for instance, but that has closed. Things like that would be ideal for younger teens who are too young to go out of town, but want somewhere to go in the evenings. Many years ago we had a bowling alley, but that died when a large complex was built out of town. Again, a good place for families and older children has gone. Bungalows for older people have been built on the outskirts, but day centres and so on are daily focussed on the town centre, so les fit older people without cars can find access difficult.

I do feel that more imagination is needed to make town centres thrive. If we keep clinging to the idea that they have to be for shopping, they will continue to decay, but if they become more accessible and attractive to people who can use them, they have a chance of survival in a way that could enrich the lives of the residents.

Do not dis coffee shops and the like. One of my local shopping towns has been revitalised by having a coffee shop 'quarter.

The centre of the town was gutted in the 1960 and the previous main shopping street, was demolished and replaced with a 'modern' (1960s) small pedestrianised shopping precinct. It was unattractive, to put it politely. This has had an exterior revamp. it runs into the market square, which is gorgeous with a magnificant 18th century town hall.

Round the market square and the start of this street, a whole host of coffee shops and restaurants with outdoor seating have opened up, all the usual suspects plus independents, They are always occupied and it gives the area a real buzz, lots of people around, chatting and laughing. In recent years a lot of the small industrial areas, builders and the like that always clustered around old town centres have been demolished and replaced by housing, and more shops have opened in peripheral areas, I think the rents in the 1960s centren are still too high and the shopping mix not yet right but the coffee shops have changed the whole feel of the area for the good.

Kathy73
Your not wrong. Kali2 does live in Switzerland.

I thought you lived in Austria or Switzerland, Kali2, or am I mixing you up with someone else?

Parking charges can be extortionate, I'll pay for longer visits but usually take advantage of Sainsbury and Waitrose, minimum £10 spend 2 hours free parking, enough time to go round the town too.

I'm not sure I understand why people won't pay for parking but are happy to pay postage and packing charges to get items delivered, particularly when they are the same people who are complaining about the death of the high street.

My local council brought in parking charges a while ago. they were 30p, yet people were furious, and claimed to be travelling to different towns or out of town retail parks where the oaring was free. it would have cost more in petrol to do this, so it always struck me as cutting off their noses to spite their faces.

Most towns now have new build housing estates on the outskirts. I think that this is a cause of a lot of congestion in town centres, and leads to a need for parking charges. If the council subsidised buses (in this area free bus passes are not available to those under 66) from the outlying estates they would reduce the demand for parking. That would also mean that there could be designated spaces for those unable to get around even with a bus.

It is, IMO, very short sighted to make policies on the assumption that everyone has a car, and that everyone wants to use it for relatively short journeys. It would be better for the environment, and for congestion, as well as for local economies, loneliness, employment and all sorts of things if people could more easily get from one small town to another, and to town centres from outlying estates and villages without taking a car.

My local shops don’t stock decent veg/meat, so I buy all that online with orders direct from the farm, supporting the farmers.
I buy my clothes online, as the nearest town with the shops I like has expensive parking.
Everything else I get delivered from the supermarket or Sainsbury’s.
One thing that would make shops more attractive is if you could return online purchases in store. If that were the case It would encourage me to pop in to exchange items and possibly buy more. The only store that has let me do that was All Saints which let me swap a wallet for DH and I ended up buying a load more.
With all I have on, juggling several freelance jobs, caring for mil and keeping the house, online shopping is the only way I can shop these days unfortunately.

I am quite envious of your, still busy, Market Town centres, Calendargirl and others
Ours lost its independent butcher, baker, fishshop and, greengrocers many years ago. Shoe, clothes and book shops are long gone.
3 out of 4 banks have shut their doors.

Instead there are now houses, cafes, hairdressers, estate agents, tanning, vape and tattoo parlours, charity shops and a couple of supermarkets and small chains.

The post office is still busy as it operates like a bank and is the place to return all your unwanted on-line parcels!
3 pharmacies manage to survive all the antidepressants

To try to buck the trend, our Community Development Trust and another community organisation have managed to buy premises and have 2 excellent businesses including a stationers and museum, a bicycle repair shop, a re-makery, a tool library, a storehouse which sells from best local food, 2nd hand books and also runs a community hub.
These are dependant on volunteer labour, like the charity shops but also support some paid staff.
There is also a food bank and community fridge.

Our nearest city of Edinburgh's main shopping Street, Princes Street has taken some serious blows with most of the big names moving out leaving tatty, boarded up sections with not much hope of recovery.

I have watched this transition with fascination. The next thing I'd like to see is carparks becoming public parks and gardens as they once were.

I don't know if it is recovery but it is change certainly.

I think they should have stopped charging for parking, at least away from main railway parking.

I agree Meryl Streep lots of councils are planning in that way, dh works indirectly in regeneration and most of the councils he works with are operating in the way you describe.

It is happening already; my local town centre is like a ghost town, with the closure of so many shops. A redevelopment complex was planned with cinemas and cafes but appears to have died; many shops closed preparatory to this and the departure of the Department store and Marks and Spencer has dealt the death blow. The parking charges are high.
By contrast, the local market town is flourishing, with greengrocers, butchers, bread shops, cookware and a book shop and a good range of clothes and shoe shops and a chemist, plus parking at 80p for three hours!
The only disadvantage is I can't reach it by bus.

Yes I would use Amazon for items that aren't easily available and waste too much time trying to find in a shop

Our town started a long term regeneration program at least 2 years before covid came along.
Planning permission has gone in to convert the Debenhams store into apartments.
Every council in the country should have been aware of the change in spending a long time ago.

I meant to add, as already has been pointed out, it's not only the Internet, but vast shopping malls have also played their part in sucking the guts out of the high street, personally I dislike that type of retail experience, but I imagine a younger demographic would favour the mall

But many of us want to use Amazon to buy say a phone charger and a clear pencil case (my last purchase!) and then do something social with our time. Those purchases are not an exciting social experience for me.

I too think there has been a resurgence in the high street, I haven't been up to London lately but I hear from those who have, it is a bit sad and depleted since the initial lockdown. Hopefully it will adapt and rise again.

I certainly hope high streets don't disappear, there is a social aspect to shopping and browsing. Not everyone wants to do that in splendid isolation and make Amazon and similar even richer, I think a lot of us would rather support smaller businesses.

Town centres have to provide a service which we want, if not I am afraid they will struggle. I have always found the idea of shopping as a past time as not helpful for many reasons.

I’m another who thinks they will evolve - or the ones with forward-thinking councils will.

Town centres could be community hubs, with spaces where people can met without a consumer-based economy. I’m thinking of Arts venues, sports facilities, social spaces where people of all ages can meet to talk and socialise (not necessarily selling alcohol). There could be youth clubs, education-based groups, clubs for older people- whatever fits the demographic of the town.

The funding and organisation of the spaces are things that councils (and the government) will have to work out, but it’s probably time that they broadened their remit anyway. A decent bus service to bring in people (not cars) from outlying areas would help.

A shift from consumerism to community could reduce loneliness, help mental health, and revitalise areas that have lost their focus, as well as giving towns a local feel, so that a high street in Cumbria is not the same as one in Cornwall.

Another small town that has had a resurgence during covid, several Independant eateries, one Independant coffee shop expanded. A hardware shop, and artists shop, all opened. No pubs closed down, although reduced hours due to staff being off sick. All major shops dived before covid, and we have got used to being without them. Plenty of super market choices.

We ve lost about 15 or more shops and because we had 4 or 5 large Departmental stores (4 nationals) it looks pretty sad

I think it will take a generation or two and then someone will say ‘in the old days there use to be shops in the High Streets shall we try this novel idea’

I live in a small market town, and thankfully, it still has two butchers, a greengrocers(expensive), hardware shop, also expensive, and a family bakery. Plus a couple of attractive boutiques and a nice shoe shop.

Personally, I walk into town to utilise these shops. I don’t want to live in a place that just has restaurants, coffee shops, art galleries, museums.

Certain shops come and go, thankfully on the whole they don’t stay empty too long, even if some don’t survive.

I am quite optimistic about the future of small towns.

Ours (which I think you know Kali) is being slightly redeveloped and, while there are lots of hairdressers, vape shop and cafes, these shops are mostly run by small business owners.

Small cafes are innovative in dealing with dietary issues like mine. Small businesses can adapt and develop more easily. One family business in our town started as a feed merchant and have sold ironmongery, then kitchen and homewares and now has a cafe, sells clothes and interiors stuff and seems to go from strength to strength.

It does rely on the local council adapting too.

I agree with what many say regarding Councils, Parking Charges etc. Last year I did nearly all my Christmas shopping locally, but had to resort to online for some items I could not get instore. Very often it's empty shelves in stores and I get annoyed when stores advertise offers only to be told there are none left when you enquire within the shop.

It’s not internet shopping which has destroyed our town centres although things like working from home, and lockdown in general have played a significant part in the decrease in footfall.
Out of town shopping centres/villages/malls have been around for decades- look at the Trafford Centre, Bluewater, Brent Cross and the many many outlet villages as well.
As supermarkets have grown they have needed more space, ease of access for their delivery lorries, not to mention parking space for shoppers.
Have you ever sat in your car in your local high street on your way to work while the Coop (traditionally still in town centres) gets it daily stock delivery?
Greedy councils charging massive business rates have more than played their part, along with planning authorities and the granting of short term leases which has added hugely to the proliferation of charity shops.
This is a problem going back 40 or more years in some areas and the last two years are not even the cherry on the top.
You could argue that out of town shopping centres and indeed internet shopping could be reducing the level of traffic in many towns and along with that reducing the levels of pollution particularly from vehicle emissions. If you are pushing a buggy along a pavement or walking a child to school, any reduction in emissions in towns has to be a good thing.