NHS staff making themselves unemployed by not having the Covid vaccine

I am an admin worker in general practice. All the doctors and nurses in the team were almost banging on the door, so to speak, to have the vaccine when it first appeared. I thought that they almost certainly know more than I do about such matters and followed their example. Everything medical has some sort of side effect; I have to take multiple anti hypertensives which I don’t really want to have to take, but rather that than have a stroke!

Blood clots are far more common after Covid than after the vaccine. I had to have scans when I was in hospital with Covid because I might have had blood clots on my lungs. In that instance I was lucky, no blood clots, but what I do have, a year on from being in hospital, is scarring on my lungs, left from the Covid and still there after my latest X-ray one year after leaving hospital. Covid has far worse consequences than vaccination for far more people than the vaccine. 150,000 dead to start with.

There is currently no data on the blood clots.

I think it is very worrying Sago. Healthy young people having these vaccines, when they do not need them.

The data is 14.9 per million for first dose of AZ vaccine, and 1.8 per million for second doses. This was for people under 40. There’s plenty of data out there, just look. I found those figures immediately.

Maddy please send a link.

I would but I can’t do links. I wish I could because I realise it would be helpful (not just on this thread) but I just don’t seem to be able to find a way to do it. I’m on the mobile site.

A Google search will reveal a lot of information though.
I’m really sorry about your son in law.

loveOc I am amazed at how gullible we are, merrily rolling our sleeves up for a vaccination that has been pushed through clinical trials at astonishing speed.
The average time for NICE to approve a drug is 5 years!

Since my SIL has been ill we have heard dozens of stories of people that have had blood clots as a result of the vaccine.

Many fit and healthy young people have suffered pericarditis and myocarditis after jabs.

My SIL was a fit and healthy ex athlete (team GB)
He is now an ill man.

I am vaccinated twice, I will not have the third vaccine.

I would strongly advise anyone having the jabs to take a lateral flow test beforehand, it seems you are at greater risk of complications if you have the virus in your system.

There are a lot of comments here by people who are not NHS workers so have no actual knowledge about vaccinations NHS staff do or do not have to receive. Best not to comment if you don't work in NHS and don't actually know the facts. This is not about whether it is right or wrong to be vaccinated but about the actual rules for front line staff.

Interesting data here.

www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/covid19deathsandautopsiesfeb2020todec2021

Elaine1 Nowhere on the OP did I see a request that only NHS staff should comment!
I do apologise.

I am amazed at how gullible we are, merrily rolling our sleeves up for a vaccination that has been pushed through clinical trials at astonishing speed.

Is it really necessary to point out yet again that in the history of pharmaceuticals there has never been so much money thrown at a project, nor so many volunteers to take part in trials that they were turning them away? Normally in the search for a vaccine or other intervention they have to spend ages going round with the begging bowl, and then the problem of recruiting enough volunteers to do the trials at every stage. These vaccines have gone through exactly the same procedures as any other, they've just not encountered the obstacles to progress.

If you want to see your family and friends get vaccinated. If you choose to work in caring services or the NHS get vaccinated. I wouldn’t want to be around anyone not vaccinated thats my choice.

Rosie51

^I am amazed at how gullible we are, merrily rolling our sleeves up for a vaccination that has been pushed through clinical trials at astonishing speed.^

Is it really necessary to point out yet again that in the history of pharmaceuticals there has never been so much money thrown at a project, nor so many volunteers to take part in trials that they were turning them away? Normally in the search for a vaccine or other intervention they have to spend ages going round with the begging bowl, and then the problem of recruiting enough volunteers to do the trials at every stage. These vaccines have gone through exactly the same procedures as any other, they've just not encountered the obstacles to progress.

Good post Rosie. All medications have side effects for a few people. There have been some unfortunate people who have developed blood clots. Most recovered after treatment in hospital. Sadly a few have died. That’s catastrophic for the person and the family. This must be balanced by all the people who have died from Covid or got side effects from Covid, myself included due to lung scars which are being monitored by the medics. The lung scars are not symptom free for me, I have a terrible cough which will not go away despite treatment with inhalers and tablets including steroids. I still took the vaccine.

Pfizer and AstraZeneca - the pharmaceutical commercial partner behind the Oxford vaccine - have both been granted protection from future product liability claims related to their Covid-19 vaccines. It means patients cannot sue for damages.

Speaking to Reuters about the agreement in July, Ruud Dobber, a member of Astra’s senior executive team, said: “This is a unique situation where we as a company simply cannot take the risk if in ... four years the vaccine is showing side effects.

“In the contracts we have in place, we are asking for indemnification.

"For most countries it is acceptable to take that risk on their shoulders because it is in their national interest.”

I think this statement says it all.

Sago

It’s a new vaccine!
We don’t know what the outcome maybe.
Drugs that doctors and nurses administer are tried tested.

Honestly I am so tired of hearing this. The vaccine is not new, it is simply targeted at a new virus - the same principles that apply to so many other vaccines apply here. All they did was adapt those principles to keep people safe from covid. And I applaud the tireless efforts of the scientists to help us to stay as safe as possible and to get this vaccine up and running as speedily as possible.

The speed of roll-out is because so many countries threw money at it and they co-operated to get this out as quickly as possible.

All vaccines carry risk and all vaccines contain a small absence of certainty about long term effects when they are new. Flu vaccine etc. - all carried that tiny risk when they were new.

Faced with a pandemic, we have to be sensible and weigh up the tiny risks against the mass benefits.

Urmstongran

I’m on the fence over this to be honest. I’m vaccinated so I’ve hopefully protected myself as far as. The unvaccinated people I don’t feel they put me at risk. I could catch it from anyone. Those who don’t get themselves vaccinated are more likely to take up hospital beds with Covid and as the NHS has such a huge backlog at present, that does seem selfish - gambling over stretched NHS resources needing a bed and staff.

I am more uncertain than ever too, Urmsongran.

I know NHS staff who had Covid before vaccines were available, thankfully recovered. Presumably they developed antibodies, probably as many as those people who are vaccinated have developed.

I also know of people who have had the vaccinations and become very ill with Covid, one locally who died within a week.

Are those NHS staff who have antibodies from having recovered from Covid any less of a danger to patients than vaccinated staff?
Both could be a potential risk or not. There is not much testing done to see who has developed antibodies and at what level.

I think we're still on a learning curve re Covid and have a long way to go before we understand more fully.

Are those NHS staff who have antibodies from having recovered from Covid any less of a danger to patients than vaccinated staff?

Sorry - any more of a danger

(I have adverts covering the message box again, annoying)

ElaineI

There are a lot of comments here by people who are not NHS workers so have no actual knowledge about vaccinations NHS staff do or do not have to receive. Best not to comment if you don't work in NHS and don't actually know the facts. This is not about whether it is right or wrong to be vaccinated but about the actual rules for front line staff.

It’s also about everyone’s confidence in the NHS, it’s staff and everyone having the confidence to put absolute trust in the care of a perfect stranger in a hospital uniform.

As a Heath care professional, I have had all my vaccines. After my Hep B I did have a problem, which I didn't realise was a side effect. On going for 2nd Hep B during the pre injection talk the Occ Health nurse questioned me and advised I was not to have the second jab. I had a blood test to assess my Antibodies and found I had enough to cover me.
Those who refuse thier Covid jabs in Health care. only a few will be genuine, I expect will be subjected to routine checks via Occ Health. The rest will loose their jobs /careers, no one will take them on.
Agencies have already stated " no Jabs no jobs" so that door is firmly shut too.

I'm not an expert at all but I read as much as I could and decided that for me vaccination was the right choice, I have underlying health conditions.
My son did the same and is someone who suffered a stroke in his 20's.

I keep hearing about all of the side effects from the vaccine and apart from a day or two of feeling rough and a sore arm, nobody I know (luckily) has had any problems.

Something that did cross my mind though was that yellow card reporting is open for people to self report...therefore if I report I've had x. y, z reactions, what follow up / checks are done? Has this been looked at in any way?
I know of people who have reported in the past, not Covid related, and in only one case was there a follow up.
So how reliable is that data.

www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1931

This is a good start to explaining some of the risks and benefits as someone asked for evidence. I think the main concern among medics was the CVST risk which was thought to be mostly after Oxford hence why it was pulled for younger ageS.. it’s not necessarily about VTE risk per se as that will be higher in Covid anyway due to the immobility of the patients in hospital. We mustn’t confuse the different types by just referring to them as ‘blood clots’ that can be treated.

But as someone previously said. It is about the mandate and the potential slippery slope that can lead to for some health workers. Especially in view of them probably having immunity as pointed out. And having been able to treat people thus far. Plus it being mandated for a specific subtype of people but not for society - of people want to feel safe, and rneu feel safe by knowing someone is vaccinated then it would follow that all public facing workers must be mandated to be vaccinated - teachers, shop workers, hairdressers, beauticians otherwise it makes a mockery of the the concept of mandating it to make people feel safe.
Whilst I wouldn’t refuse and lose my job if I were still working, I do have empathy for those that will and I also respect them for standing up to another attack by the government on this one subsection of society.

I suffered after my first vaccine a year ago and swear to this day it was a slight brain bleed because for the month and beyond February last year I couldn't go out for fear of walking into things because of severe dizziness. Similar symptoms to what I'd had 3 years prior when I'd had a TIA which showed on a scan. Not had anything since !

As a consequence I haven't risked another vaccine but at the same time I'm very careful regarding being out and about and haven't been on public transport for a while so I'm not being complacent by any means.

I had a bad bout of Covid back in 2019/20, and at one time would have been relying on antibodies to defer a further infection.