NHS staff making themselves unemployed by not having the Covid vaccine

There are some really disturbing assumptions and simplifications on here - about - 'the' virus and immunity, leading to incorrect beliefs.

1) The virus:

We have Delta, Omicron - and a strong possibility of present and future new variants. Which one are we talking about? it's not 'the' virus - it's them. Immunity to one is not immunity to another.

2) Immunity:

It's not lasting immunity - it's temporary, very temporary in fact, a few months, maybe six months but waning after three. That's why booster doses are so important.

Omicron has a higher transmissibility rate than previous strains, so higher levels of antibodies are needed to prevent infection.

Immunity gained via only two vaccines or infection to earlier COVID variants (like delta or alpha) won't necessarily prevent omicron infection.

Therefore, regardless of whether you've been previously infected or double-vaccinated, a booster is our best defence against reinfection.

I believe that the number of NHS staff who will leave their jobs rather than have vaccination will be low - and good riddance to them, as i wouldn't want to be treated by them.

I work for the NHS and have had 3 vaccines. I believe that all staff should be encouraged to be vaccinated but ultimately it should be their choice(human rights).
We cannot afford to loose all these unvaccinated irreplaceable staff, the NHS will be worse off!

I don’t think any NHS or care worker would take lightly the decision to leave a career dedicated to caring for others. This is a massive decision for them and scary. I would want to know their reasons and their voice deserves to be heard. The coercion placed on these dedicated people makes me feel extremely uncomfortable.

I think getting vaccinated (unless medically contraindicated) is the responsible thing to do for all health care and NHS staff who have contact with patients or patient facing staff or work in patient/staff areas- But I am uncomfortable with what is happening presently. Registered health professionals already have many conditions that they must abide by (including Hep B vaccine etc) but compulsory vaccination is a new idea for many non registered staff - such as the many non medical staff ( cleaners/ maintenance staff/ post room/porters/kitchen staff/ admin/clerks etc) who are essential to every health setting.
Hospitals are frantically busy sorting out who must be vaccinated ( or loose their jobs) and those who could continue to work unvaccinated because they have no patient contact and do not visit clinic or ward areas as part of their work role. Some of the staff who could loose their jobs are longstanding lifelong employees. It must be a nightmare to management staff trying to sort this out. There is not much time to get all this sorted ( 2 vaccines ?8 weeks apart are needed to be compliant).

NHS staff making themselves unemployed by not having the Covid vaccine

No, they're not.

The Government is making them unemployed.

(PS I too am triple jabbed and work in the NHS)

Actually Callistemon21, yes they are.

Vaccination will soon become a legal requirement of employment in those roles and by refusing to have the vaccinations they are wilfully acting against the conditions of their employment and as such, ARE making themselves unemployed.
The government changed the terms of employment and in order to remain employed, staff must abide by these new terms. If they don't like the terms, they have 2 choices, leave before the new rules are live, thereby making themselves unemployed (unless they've got a different job to go to that doesn't contractually require them to be vaccinated), or wait until the rules go live and get sacked for non-compliance, which in effect still constitutes it being their own fault they're losing their jobs.

Blood clots are very much more common on catching covid . I had covid 12 months ago and one of the first things they did after me being admitted to hospital was send me for a CT lung , checking for clots .

The absolute contempt for NHS staff is interesting to watch. Mind I always knew the clapping for carers was meaningless.

I think people have lost sight of what is more important. Is it more important that carers and medical staff are vaccinated or is it more important that there are enough competent staff to care for people? I know what I'd prefer

Keeping a balanced view is important. Good infection control and lateral flow testing will protect others. We were told having a vaccine would protect others but it does not. Staying home if having symptoms is important. I used to feel very annoyed with people coming to work with heavy colds and sneezing over others. Common sense should prevail!

I agree with mandatory vaccination. NHS staff have to have other vaccinations in order to do their jobs - hepatitis being one of them. I had to have that when I worked in admin in the NHS and had very limited face to face contact with doctors and patients. I don't get it - is "sticking to your personal choice" more important than ensuring your own safety as well as that of your patients and colleagues? Is your personal choice to deliberately put all those people at risk then? To say it is an untested vaccine is vacuous - how many hundreds of millions of doses have been administered? Many many more than in any clinical trial done over several years.

I had an interesting conversation with a man I vaguely know about vaccine refusal. He said you don't know what's in it. I asked if he took recreational drugs. He said yes - cannabis, pills of various sorts. I asked if he knew what was in those and what they'd been mixed with. He said no, and I asked if he was happy to take those, then how could he say that to justify not having the vaccine, because that hadn't been mixed with anything dangerous. He said oh yeah, right. I don't know if he had the vaccine after all. But I think he realised what a fool he was.

It is very difficult, but I do not think you can force people to be vaccinated or lose their jobs. You cannot have mandatory vaccination for some and not others, what about teachers? I have been vaccinated but I do have friends who have not, both in health care too! I respect their decisions, they take every precaution and test regularly.

Some of the comments on here about the Covid virus made based on personal experience and cod science makes me despair. NHS staff need to be vaccinated to prevent NHS staff members getting a bad dose of Covid (some still will but that’s the nature of it). Constantly having resource issues due to staff illness is causing huge problems for the delivery of the service. Have the vaccine and do us all a favour please medics.

Galaxy - I don't think there's contempt for NHS staff. Amazement and disbelief that they would remain unvaccinated, specially as they have seen Covid patients at first hand, anger about them deliberately choosing to put patients, colleagues, and even themselves at risk - I see that and I guess I feel that myself.

If you're sick enough to be in hospital you are vulnerable to all infection - I wouldn't want to be treated by anyone unvaccinated. I've had cancer three times and my treatment has been good and efficient, by (mostly) kind, dedicated, knowledgeable staff, from clinical to support staff. But if I was in hospital right now, I'd be very wary.

So, what you are saying is, you don't want an unvaccinated person coming anywhere near you, be it the surgeon, the nurse, the cleaner or the receptionist who is behind a screen - even though you are fully vaccinated yourself.

The conundrum there is that you don't have faith in the vaccines you have had to protect you.

I'm playing Devil's Advocate here.
I am fully vaccinated and I am as careful as I can be but I'm finding it difficult to follow some of the logic.

Regular testing of staff, including antibody testing of those who have had Covid, should be the norm.

I am not amazed or disbelieving that people make different choices to myself.

Skyblue2:

'We were told having a vaccine would protect others but it does not. '

Wrong! Vaccinated people are far less likely to get Covid in the first place. If you don't get Covid, you can't infect someone else.”

I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with mandatory vaccination for NHS staff. My doctor daughter had to have the Hep B vaccine whilst she was still a student so that she could do a three month rotation in theatre. No choice, just get the vaccine. Why’s it different? Were her human rights being removed because she was told to get the Hep B vaccine? Of course they weren’t, it was for her protection. As is having the Covid vaccine, for ourselves and for others. We are less likely to get Covid, less likely to get it badly if we do get it, and less likely to transmit it if we’ve had the virus. This has all been proved by careful analysis by scientists. NHS staff need to get the vaccine.

I am trying to follow the logic. If 90% of the NHS have been vaccinated why are so many getting sick? Who are all these expert scientists? Why are we not hearing from the expert professionals in the field who have important observations and concerns? Why are we not hearing about all the people who have been seriously injured or dead from the vaccine? How ,any people have heard of a Maddie de Garry, the 12 year old who took part in the Pfizer vaccine trial who was seriously injured after the second jab and is now in a wheelchair? Why are we not hearing the news stories about the many sportsmen and women who have been Injured or now dead? Just saying

I have heard of Maddie De Garay.

@Shropshirelass

It is very difficult, but I do not think you can force people to be vaccinated or lose their jobs. You cannot have mandatory vaccination for some and not others, what about teachers? I have been vaccinated but I do have friends who have not, both in health care too! I respect their decisions, they take every precaution and test regularly.

Employers have the right to make stipulations about what they consider necessary for employees and the NHS already stipulates Hepatitis B vaccinations, so it's just the next step to add Covid vaccination to the requirement.

You ask, why not teachers?, there's nothing to say that the Education Secretary won't stipulate at some point in the future that teaching staff need to be vaccinated. Rules change all the time, people's employment contracts get changed and if they don't want to abide by the new rules they have to look for a new job elsewhere.

It seems that this policy is now being rethought because the NHS couldn't cope with the staff losses. OK. But what message does that send to the care home workers who los their jobs in the autumn for exactly this reason?

A terrible example of the govt failing to think things through. Or did they use the care sector as guinea pigs?
How on earth do those who think this govt is handling the pandemic well explain this?

winterwhite

It seems that this policy is now being rethought because the NHS couldn't cope with the staff losses. OK. But what message does that send to the care home workers who los their jobs in the autumn for exactly this reason?

A terrible example of the govt failing to think things through. Or did they use the care sector as guinea pigs?
How on earth do those who think this govt is handling the pandemic well explain this?

As a carer I totally agree with you..??????????

nhs workers are very fortunate if they can opt for unemployment over having vacccine and keeping a job!