HRT to be sold over the counter!

I have met Louise Newson for a consultation before she opened her Stratford practice. I have been there a few times and found them all to be so helpful and positive. I can recommend the Balance app and am so glad that I found what is has now become a very successful and busy practice when I needed it most. I have nothing but praise for they way they are myth busting and doing all they can to help understanding. There is so much ignorance and misunderstanding surrounding HRT.

Mildmanneredgran

All I can say is that for me, if I hadn't taken HRT, I would have been writing this from prison, where I would have been sent for murder. Sounds dramatic, but my symptoms, like so many others on this thread, were absolutely intolerable. I got my life back. As for the implications that HRT causes breast cancer, these theories have been completely discredited. I did indeed get breast cancer, but as I told my GP when he prescribed it, all the females in my family got it at around the same age, including my mum and grandmother, without HRT. The likelihood (to me, in any case) is that I would have got it anyway. The great benefit of having the breast cancer was that I went into "the system" - scanned for bone density every year, vitamin D supplements on prescription, etc. Obviously I don't consume any soya now! We are all different, however, and that should be respected.

Your experience is very valuable in helping to get rid of some of the myths and misunderstandings about HRT. Most people have heard that it has been linked to breast cancer but this was mainly because of the findings of the discredited 2002 Women's Health Initiative (WHI) trial in the USA. Things have changed since then and it is known that the risk of breast cancer is very low, less than, for example, drinking 2 glasses of wine a day, being overweight or not exercising. HRT is a choice for every woman. But it is very difficult for anyone to make that choice if they don't have the full story. This information is discussed for example, in Davina McCall's documentary on Channel 4 and can also be found on any evidence-based website, for example Dr Louise Newson's.

trisher

Incidently we shouldn't imagine that this is purely a Western or British problem, drug companies operate worldwide. The biggest market for HRT drugs now is China, where Premarin is currently being marketed and manufactured. www.all-creatures.org/articles2/ar-premarin-horses-china.html
So although you may feel your usage of HRT is justified you are buying into the drug companies marketing strategies and simply making them money.
My great grandmother, my GM and my mother all lived into their 90s and lived active lifestyles. This concept that you can tell someone on HRT is so misleading. No you can't. There are so many other factors involved. As for the idea that you need a drug to continue to live happily in the lifestyle you have problems with, why not just change your lifestyle? This would obviously change society a great deal, so perhaps that's why HRT is being so agressively marketed to women now. God forbid they should rock the boat.

For goodness sake! What has lifestyle to do with vaginal atrophy, night sweats, hot flushes, brain fog?
I don't feel I'm simply making the drug companies money. I am making an improvement to the very physical issues that menopause has caused me.

If your on Instagram. Then follow Davina Mcall as she has done a QnA with a menopause Dr. The paper that you are all talking about that frightened everyone has ruined many women’s lives by preventing many drs from prescribing it and many women from taking it. It’s about time we got over this.I’m going to the drs next week to ask for my hormones back, to which we are all entitled to. Women stop suffering and get the help you deserve

Having tried HRT on two separate occasions and on each occasion I was more or less bullied by my GP to stop which I did! So after many attempts to loose weight I gave up all refined sugary foods and do you know what……..the night sweats went, the brain fog lifted and I’m sleeping like a baby. May be something worth looking at trying before going down the HRT route? I know for many though that HRT is a life saver quite literally. Do what ever works for you.

Lizy

trisher

Incidently we shouldn't imagine that this is purely a Western or British problem, drug companies operate worldwide. The biggest market for HRT drugs now is China, where Premarin is currently being marketed and manufactured. www.all-creatures.org/articles2/ar-premarin-horses-china.html
So although you may feel your usage of HRT is justified you are buying into the drug companies marketing strategies and simply making them money.
My great grandmother, my GM and my mother all lived into their 90s and lived active lifestyles. This concept that you can tell someone on HRT is so misleading. No you can't. There are so many other factors involved. As for the idea that you need a drug to continue to live happily in the lifestyle you have problems with, why not just change your lifestyle? This would obviously change society a great deal, so perhaps that's why HRT is being so agressively marketed to women now. God forbid they should rock the boat.

For goodness sake! What has lifestyle to do with vaginal atrophy, night sweats, hot flushes, brain fog?
I don't feel I'm simply making the drug companies money. I am making an improvement to the very physical issues that menopause has caused me.

Well have you got all those things? I had hot flushes- coped with through adequate layers of clothing to strip off and opening windows all the time (something I continue to do but now it's Covid related). Night sweats and waking in the night feeling I wanted to do something. Mentally I trained myself to ignore the urges and accept it was night time and I needed to rest. I could have jumped up and cleaned or done other things but I know my own capabilities and I would have been wrecked the next day. Relaxation exercises helped enormously.
As for brain fog- is it really to do with disturbed sleep, or do you feel you don't want to do what you are doing? So would something else interest and involve you more? What exactly is brain fog anyway? I tend to try to learn new things which stimulates my brain. Started doing community dancing in my late 60s It's so good for my brain although I'm still, and always have been, hopelessly uncoordinated.
As for an atrophied vagina I really don't know. I think it's OK but who knows?

Sounds like my new dr , he won't let me have anything since he came along before that I had a lovely lady Dr who put me on a hrt as my original ones weren't helping the new ones lady dr gave me helped me the most no sweats no itchy skin no foggy headedness. Now I'm getting all symptoms back and he is making me have tests that I've already had and he won't listen to me I feel worthless now

Vagifem is a tiny , very low oestrogen pessary , not a cream?

Premarin is a very old type of HRT . The new modern HRT is plant based and so much safer to use. Menopause is for the rest of a woman’s life . Women’s bodies really need Oestrogen to stay healthy . Mind and body ! So for me , I’m replacing what is lost - like insulin to a diabetic ? I’m doing it to stay health .

Nobody has said anyone will be taking away HRT.
Just suggesting that is probably best prescribed by a doctor.

trisher if you had vaginal atrophy you would know. I had discomfort when sitting, extreme discomfort when walking, endless bouts of thrush and numerous cycles of antibiotics for urine infections. It took four months of treatment to get back to pre menopause normal.
Please don't minimise the very real distress caused by these conditions. It comes across as very patronising and I am sure you don't mean that.
I took HRT for a few years, stopped becauseof the dubious data from America and suffered for another ten years. I sailed through pregnancy and childbirth, but had a very difficult menopause. Luck of the draw.

I have had a HRT and loved it! I am now on a form of it actually more for bladder issues. I am on 0.5 mg of estradiol. It is a miracle drug to relieve issues with bladder incontinence, discomfort, etc. I had no idea such a thing was available for application to that location, but it's wonderful! It worked so well I wished I could drink it through a straw for general purposes. This was prescribed by a urologist here in the US. It needs a prescription, but is fairly easy to get. It has made me so much more comfortable, confident, and has reduced my laundry load.

As MissA said this thread was about some form of HRT possibly become available OTC, like it has already happened with Viagra, and some contraceptive pills.

Mamie

trisher if you had vaginal atrophy you would know. I had discomfort when sitting, extreme discomfort when walking, endless bouts of thrush and numerous cycles of antibiotics for urine infections. It took four months of treatment to get back to pre menopause normal.
Please don't minimise the very real distress caused by these conditions. It comes across as very patronising and I am sure you don't mean that.
I took HRT for a few years, stopped becauseof the dubious data from America and suffered for another ten years. I sailed through pregnancy and childbirth, but had a very difficult menopause. Luck of the draw.

Mamie of coure there are some conditions which will require medical intervention and I would never want to deprive any woman of treatment she really needed. I simply question if all of the conditions now being prescribed HRT for are anything to do with a lack of oestrogen and if prescribing it is in fact just a money spinner for drug companies.
I note that most drug companies now market drugs containing horses urine under different names in Western developed countries and have moved their horse suppliers to countries like China because women began to question the ethics of HRT drugs. The perception seems to be that women have somehow been restricted by drug companies and doctors, but I am well aware that drug companies actively promote their products to trainee and newly qualified doctors, which makes me wonder what came first the demands of women or the drug company products and I know which I believe.
There seems to be some perception by those taking HRT that they are somehow more active and look younger. A lot of the things I do I do with women 10 or even 15 years younger than me. Maybe I do look a lot older than them. I can't tell. I can't tell if they are taking HRT either. I know I'm not. I don't know how other people do know.

trisher I had no interest in looking younger and have always been very active, but I do know that hot flushes, disturbed sleep and mood swings made the last years of my very demanding career much harder. If I could have kept going with HRT for a few years it would have helped enormously.
I knew 20 years ago not to have HRT from mare's urine. It wasn't difficult to avoid.
Women need to be able to make informed choices. That's all.

I had to agree to have HRT in the form of an oestrogen tablet before the surgeon would agree to a radical hysterectomy as he didn't want me to suffer from Osteoporosis. It was the best thing that ever happened to me. Having suffered from the most terrible PMT all my life because of the drop in oestrogen and the increase in progesterone, I was "cured" when I started on the Oestrogen after the hysterectomy. No more terrible mood swings or depression. I tried to come off it once but never again. It was like having permanent, terrible PMT.

Trisher. You’re flogging a dead horse by harping on about drug companies and premarin. Take it from those of us who have the intelligence to research what we put into our bodies and wish to be ethical that your argument is more than a quarter of a century out of date.
Oestrogen isn’t a money spinner for the drug companies any more than say insulin. There seems to be a misogynistic attitude that women are not entitled to relief from the symptoms of oestrogen loss. It helps so many well informed women lead full and healthy lives.
You need to ask yourself why oh why you resent that.

Humbley

Sounds like my new dr , he won't let me have anything since he came along before that I had a lovely lady Dr who put me on a hrt as my original ones weren't helping the new ones lady dr gave me helped me the most no sweats no itchy skin no foggy headedness. Now I'm getting all symptoms back and he is making me have tests that I've already had and he won't listen to me I feel worthless now

Humbley. May I offer you a big hug. It is appalling that you should be made to feel worthless by your doctor.
Is there another doctor in the practice you could ask to see? If not you need to ask for a referral to a menopause clinic. There you will be seen by a consultant who is better informed.
Your GP should explain why he has decided to take you off a medication which has been helping you. Unless he has a compelling reason then you need to dig your heels in and insist on a referral.
Google NICE guidelines on the menopause. That’s the NHS best practice update for doctors. If you go in knowing what you are talking about you will get his attention.
Many women print it off and offer it to the doctor to great effect. Be assertive and good luck.

I think it's a ruse to make women pay for HRT. Once it's available over the pharmacy counter, GPs will want to save money for their practice and many won't prescribe it. The WASPI women will lose out yet again.
In my case it's vital. I have had recurrent pelvic and urinary tract pain which is debilitating for many weeks and even months when I get it. Vagifem pessaries were prescribed by a Gynae Consultant several years ago after a particularly bad bout. He thought that it would help with vaginal atrophy but I didn't use them as I was afraid I might be sensitive to the medication and the pain might start again. I was ok for a bit then I had an even worse bout during the first Lockdown, had a D & C but the horrible pain persisted until I remembered the pessaries which produced an improvement fairly quickly. I have had them on prescription since then and I think I would have to live in horrible pain without them. But why should older women/pensioners have to pay for a vital medication? My husband doesn't have to pay for his prostate medication. I shall certainly be out on the streets protesting with a large banner detailing the state of my vagina. But oh no! This government is trying to ban peaceful protest.

Fashionista, If a woman presents to her GP with symptoms of the menopause and is peri menopausal,NICE now recommend that HRT is prescribed without carrying out blood tests.

If you can spare two minutes, do fill in the survey, this will inform the decision making. If you feel HRT in general (not just the cream or pessaries) should be available in pharmacies, then you can add that in!
www.surveys.mhra.gov.uk/61f9094608ff8900e33fdd57

Esspee

*Trisher*. You’re flogging a dead horse by harping on about drug companies and premarin. Take it from those of us who have the intelligence to research what we put into our bodies and wish to be ethical that your argument is more than a quarter of a century out of date.
Oestrogen isn’t a money spinner for the drug companies any more than say insulin. There seems to be a misogynistic attitude that women are not entitled to relief from the symptoms of oestrogen loss. It helps so many well informed women lead full and healthy lives.
You need to ask yourself why oh why you resent that.

So could you list all the drugs which contain mare's urine Espee I very much doubt it. Premarin was the name originally used but now there are lots of other things. I challenge you to name them if you are so well informed.
Why on earth would you believe oestrogen isn't a money spinner for drug companies? Take it by all means but be aware of who you are funding by doing so
As a matter of fact insulin is also a money spinner for drug companies as there is substantial evidence that the best thing to prevent type 2 diabetes is a change in diet.
I don't resent anything. I do think women should ask why they should be expected to take a substance their body has essentially finished with, because there is a period where their symptoms make things a little difficult. I've no doubt it is much easier if a woman takes a drug and stays quiet than if she asks for her workplace to accommodate her hot flushes by say, allowing her to reduce the temperature, or even open a window. I've no doubt it is a lot easier if you can shut up a woman who finds some aspect of her life is distressing her by giving her a drug to take. It used to be anti-depressants, now it's hormones. Different substance, same objective keep women from being difficult.
The problem is that some will spend almost 50 years on those drugs. I simply believe if you treat any conditions, know the aeging process and what helps alleviate the problems it brings, and establish a healthy lifestyle, you stand much more chance of living a healthy old age. Diet, exercise, exploring new things, staying active are more important than any hormonal treatment.

I felt so intimidate by my old GP's negative attitude to HRT that once I had been on it for a couple of years I started to buy it from an on line source that did not ask any awkward questions. My symptoms were very severe and I could not have stayed in work if I'd been made to suffer without it. After 10 years I needed to see a gynaecologist for a minor matter and he was very helpful and told me my concerns were valid, that I could carry on with HRT for the rest of my life if I wanted and arranged for me to have a Mirena coil ( something I was not expecting at 65!) and estrogel to apply.
I now know that if GP gets awkward with me I could get a referral somewhere else and feel much more confident and happy about the situation.
Without HRT I smell different, feel anxious and the hot flushes return, I just don't feel as if I am myself. I'm very pleased I had that small polyp now, if I hadn't had to go to the hospital I'd still be changing my luck on line.

While I agree that HRT should be accessible to all women who want it and I have to say, I have had no problem getting it from my gp on the NHS. Starting firstly with a mirena coil when I first started going through peri menopause (for me, stopped my hair falling out) and I had so many horrible symptoms including being diagnosed as clinically depressed with generalised anxiety disorder. HRT was a godsend

HOWEVER yesterday I had to have a scan because during covid my coil effectiveness ran out and it was missed. So I’ve been having oestrogen patches without progesterone for 9 months. Now they’re worried.

So no, I don’t think it should be over the counter. I think it needs to be monitored.

Readily available, yes. Affordable, yes. I get 3 month supply if patches at a time on NHS for the fee of £9 and change. Think it’s a bargain.

So I was put onto HRT tablets in late 40's, I was Post Menopausal. Told I could take it for 5 years max, which I did. Now 18 years later, I'm fine not taking anything, just worried about my bone health as I have Osteopaenia. So, perhaps I should ask if I can restart at 68, or not necessary. I never suffered any problems and it's great not having any more periods.